[1_Wild_Cat]

Hi Everyone -- I had been planning on hiring Dave at SD Performance to do the head work on my '64 GTO heads. As was posted in a previous thread - that is no longer an option.

So I am looking for someone to do up these heads right. And I have a good set of cores to start from. The other thread recommended: Jim Robertson in TX, and Mendoza in CA. Who else should I consider? What are my odds of finding a set done by SD for sale on the secondary market?

Background in case you need it: I am planning on building a small-journal 4" stroke - it will end up 415-440 cid depending on the block. I want it to be externally stock appearing (except headers) for my '64 GTO...so '64 Tri Power, #716 heads.

I am looking to get +/- 1 hp/cid. So call it 425 hp by 5500 RPM. I would like to get the heads started soon - as I want to be firing the engine around Feb. this year.

Thanks in advance for the help.

[steve25]

Those heads flow some 177 cfm in stock form thru there 1.92” intake valve which is good for like 360 hp, but to make that level of hp in stock form you will need to run lifts in the .580” range depending on the Cam you run.

I have stuff in a 1.94” valve, bowl port them and then unshroud the chamber some they will go 216 cfm and I have fully ported them to over 250 cfm.

Ported to between 225 and 230 cfm should get you to 425 Hp rather easy with the CID range your taking about.
The problem with these heads is due to there valve inclination angle they rework to bigger flow numbers easier then the 67 and up heads which can be a issue with motors in the 430 and up cid range in that there port volume can be on the small side if not deliberately taken to a bigger size then you think might be needed.
Who ever ports them I hope keeps that in mind.

Good flow numbers can make good hp but the repercussions from too small a port area / volume is that the hp numbers will nose over fast above 5000 rpm.

In my opinion any motor with a 3.750” to 4,00” stroke needs to be built to rev to 6000 to 6200 rpm , as this is where these strokes do there best work, and with today’s affordable aftermarket steel rods and good valve springs I can see no reason why a street motor with a 4.00” stroke can’t go to 6500 rpm when called upon to do so and live a long happy easy to maintain life!

[Tom Vaught]

Milt S back when he was running Bill Sherman's (Wangers) 64 GTO built a large Pontiac engine with the #716 1964 GTO Heads. The were ported by a Guy named Birdie, and memory serves me that Berdie said the heads went 262 cfm.

Now Tenny might have the actual flow data for the heads from the Bill Sherman estate
or that data might be lost (as Milt has passed) and I believe Birdie has also.

That engine was for sure a LARGE cubic inch (Stroked) 1966 time frame 421 block.

Jim Butlers Guy (who did cast iron heads) could get in the 265 cfm head range on every set of the cast iron D-Port heads he ported for Jim Butler. He has also passed away.

Tom V.

[b-man]

Send them to Steve.

[tom s]

Jim Robertson.Tom

[steve25]

Thanks for the Thumbs up B man, but right now I likely will not have the time with what I already have on my plate!

[tom s]

No disrespect to Steve!Jim has done some nice iron head work for me.Im sure ANYONE that does iron is VERY busy.Tom

[1_Wild_Cat]

Wow -- Thanks everyone for the info. and for letting me know that I am not barking up the wrong tree.

In my opinion any motor with a 3.750” to 4,00” stroke needs to be built to rev to 6000 to 6200 rpm , as this is where these strokes do there best work, and with today’s affordable aftermarket steel rods and good valve springs I can see no reason why a street motor with a 4.00” stroke can’t go to 6500 rpm when called upon to do so and live a long happy easy to maintain life!

Hi Steve -- Actually I was planning on setting the rev limiter at 6000-6100 and used the 5500 RPM number as a little buffer to my plans. Without derailing the conversation - I was planning on running an HFT and figured that 6000 was probably a practical limit. The plan for the bottom end is as bullet-proof as I can reasonably make it. I'll be picking everyone's brain when I decide on a final combination.

Thanks again everyone...

[Cardo]

I had Kauffman do a set for me years ago on my 66. That may be an option.

[1_Wild_Cat]

I had Kauffman do a set for me years ago

Thanks Cardo...I'll have to check with them as well. I hope my engine comes out as good as yours...

[Cardo]

I'm sure it will...looks like you're talking with the right people. Dave never did send me my flow sheets, but i believe he said my heads flow around 240. With your extra cubes, 425 should be no problem at all.

[Dragncar]

Paul Carter

[Va68goat]

There is a thread on Paul Carter (gtofreek) in the business section. Read it before you consider going through him.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=835570

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Paul Carter

I don't believe he is a head porter???

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

There is a thread on Paul Carter (gtofreek) in the business section. Read it before you consider going through him.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=835570

You discrediting him is not going to change my opinion of him.
He is one of the best guys we have left.
I assemble and check my own engines. If something goes wrong, its MY fault.
He has forgotten more about Pontiacs than you have ever known.

[1_Wild_Cat]

OK Fellas -- Can we keep this on topic - so I can find the right person?

I've had a couple of recommendations but I think that it would be good talk to a few people. Anybody else I should be considering?

Thanks everyone for helping out.

[pastry_chef]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

I assemble and check my own engines. If something goes wrong, its MY fault.

100%.
With a second handle muscle car I won't sleep well until I've had the engine torn down, everything checked and re-assembled by myself.
Most others don't want to invest the hours, or don't have the knowledge.

[pastry_chef]

Originally Posted by 1_Wild_Cat

I've had a couple of recommendations but I think that it would be good talk to a few people. Anybody else I should be considering?

Thanks everyone for helping out.

Dave Wilcox
https://headsandmanifolds.wordpress....-head-porting/

[Dick Boneske]

Butler told me that the 716 heads are nearly identical to the '63 980 heads except they have the heat riser passage. He said it's not hard to get similar HP numbers with 716 heads with the right porting. Obviously, screw-in studs are necessary, as is filling the heat riser passage to eliminate the Siamese sharing of 5-7 and 2-4 exhaust ports.

This is an interesting thread. Let's discuss it further. I would love to "enhance" my '64 GTO with these heads on a Whitmore 434 block.

[steve25]

Thats not 100% true!
The valve bowl percentages and other port areas have been increased in the 980 casting to do justice to the bigger valve sizes over the 716 head and the center exh ports on the 980 head are far different!

Only the basic intake port shapes between the two heads are the same!

The 980 head head at .600” lift flows 15% more on the intake side and 20% more on the exh side then the 716 head.

At .500” lift the 980 head flows 15% more on the intake side and 17% more on the exh side then the 716 head does!
These are not small flow gains, and are why a 13 to 1 compression , duel 4 bbl 421 could make close to 600 hp with the stainless steel tube headers that they had.

The only post 1970 production head that flows as well as the 980 heads and was made in very large numbers where the 1971 455 HO round port heads, if you do not consider the RAIV replacement castings or the SD455 replacement castings that could be had over the counter.