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Old 07-23-2022, 06:52 AM
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25stevem 25stevem is offline
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I am constantly amazed by folks who post up questions as to how much power there new build will make!

Many of these builds are very high Dollar builds with aftermarket blocks , forged cranks and high port or wide port heads, the needed intake manifold and 1100 cfm or better carb, yet it seams these folks don’t believe what there engine builder has told them the motor will make, or they choose to not spend what it takes for even a cheap computer engine analyzer program to answer there own questions!

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Old 07-23-2022, 08:49 AM
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Mine makes more power than I could ask for. I am pretty sure I asked this question before but only as a fun topic. My machinist and Paul Carter did my building. All I know is its impossible to put that power to the pavement on street tires.

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Old 07-23-2022, 09:02 AM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
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I think it's just a fun exercise for many people and harmless. It's the total drivetrain package that makes for a really nice street car. Bragging rites are fun I guess, but in my case at least, I want an engine that has great response, some idle quality, won't overheat, can run on pump gas, starts easily hot, and can roast the tires at will cruising in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gear. With a stock chassis, and drum brakes, that's about 500 HP in my estimation. Much more than that, your breaking stuff all the time.

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Old 07-23-2022, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgarblik View Post
I think it's just a fun exercise for many people and harmless. It's the total drivetrain package that makes for a really nice street car. Bragging rites are fun I guess, but in my case at least, I want an engine that has great response, some idle quality, won't overheat, can run on pump gas, starts easily hot, and can roast the tires at will cruising in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gear. With a stock chassis, and drum brakes, that's about 500 HP in my estimation. Much more than that, your breaking stuff all the time.
I agree with all that but... You can do all that with WAY less than 500hp! That's a lot of ponies. THink about how many 350 pontiacs are out there. A well built and geared 4bbl dual exhaust 350 with any thing above stock cam will do all that. OK maybe not 3rd gear. And be lots of fun stop light to stop light.

But 500hp sounds like a lot of fun!!

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Old 07-23-2022, 09:23 AM
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Probably true of your talking wheel HP. I should have said 500 flywheel HP. Also should have mentioned my car is right at 2 tons. (62 Catalina). With the big 11" 8 lug drum brakes, I should be OK for a few stops before they are overheated. The 9.3" ring gear stock rear will be fine. The weak link in my deal will be the Muncie 4-speed. That's the item that will blow to pieces when really overloaded. Once I destroy that, I will move on to a much stronger 5-speed if funds are available.

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Old 07-23-2022, 09:27 AM
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As Ken Crocie stated about making 500HP, "It's like falling off a log".


.

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Old 07-23-2022, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve C. View Post
As Ken Crocie stated about making 500HP, "It's like falling off a log".


.
What does that even mean.

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Old 07-23-2022, 02:40 PM
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As Ken Crocie stated about making 500HP, "It's like falling off a log".


.
I would more or less agree with Ken on this with a few little modifications. Yes it is certainly MUCH easier to make MUCH more HP with LESS effort if your willing to change cylinder heads on our old V-8's. The heads were the choke point on most, and Pontiac's were far from the worst. I oversee a wide variety of engine builds in my class every year. My observation, rather than a HP number is HP per inch since many different platforms are used. Making less than 1 HP per cubic inch is a failure IMO, unless using stock un-touched heads and doing a restoration type rebuild. The 1 HP per inch used to be a Detroit goal, and the handful of engines that made or exceeded it were revered as "super engines". 327-375 HP, 454-450 HP 421 SD, 426 Hemi, 350-370 HP are a few examples. Almost any iron head V-8 can get there with mild head work and the right cam and a decent induction system. 1.25 HP per inch is pretty easy with a modern aluminum replacement head and little else.

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Old 07-23-2022, 11:12 AM
besserspat besserspat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgarblik View Post
I think it's just a fun exercise for many people and harmless. It's the total drivetrain package that makes for a really nice street car. Bragging rites are fun I guess, but in my case at least, I want an engine that has great response, some idle quality, won't overheat, can run on pump gas, starts easily hot, and can roast the tires at will cruising in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gear. With a stock chassis, and drum brakes, that's about 500 HP in my estimation. Much more than that, your breaking stuff all the time.
Thats pretty much my definition of fun too, I dont spend much time at the dragstrip anymore because its a big dollar game that I am not willing to play anymore.

After going full circle, I came to the conclusion that I have the most fun with stick shifted 200-500hp cars in the streets...

On a motorcycle? anything with two wheels and an engine no matter the HP, im a happy camper.

Its funny how when I was 20 I wasn't happy until my ride was entirely built of go fast and machined/fabricated aluminum parts...

...Now I get excited by a decently quick stock looking old car/motorcycle with a nice patina...!

Must be wisdom or age .

Peter

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Old 07-23-2022, 04:02 PM
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"...any 16 year old kid can walk into Summit with his parents credit card and walk out with a shopping cart of bolts ons that’ll make 500HP"

That brought a smile to my face. Fun story, about 22 years ago I befriended a young kid that was 15 years old working at McDonalds. At 16 he bought his first car, a Firebird and then went to work part time for my engine builder. His first engine was 4.250" stroke, un-ported Edelbrock heads, Crower 236 degree hyd flat tappet cam, Performer RPM intake, 750 vac. sec Holley carb and headers. On the dyno it made 509.2 HP at 5200 rpm. And his mother paid for the dyno session as a HS graduation present. No parents credit card though.... he paid for it working at the engine shop.

.

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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE

Last edited by Steve C.; 07-23-2022 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 07-23-2022, 11:36 AM
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Are there any engine analyzer programs for Macs?

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Old 07-23-2022, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
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Are there any engine analyzer programs for Macs?
I don't know a lot about Macs. But I do know that I have people running my Windows software of a Macs using / through parallels desktop (virtual machine).

Stan

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Old 07-23-2022, 02:04 PM
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In addition to the points Formulajones brings up in post #16 the engine dyno sheet is also helpful with a custom torque converter built for your specific combination. My first was about 25 years ago when I called Marv Ripes at A-1 Automatic Transmissions, he was well known in the industry. As a consultant the first thing he asked was if I had a dyno sheet. I bought two from him. Similar situation with custom units at Hughes Performance, Continental and most recently at UCC.
All found the dyno sheet helpful.


.

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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE
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Old 07-23-2022, 09:07 AM
70geeteeohh 70geeteeohh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 25stevem View Post
I am constantly amazed by folks who post up questions as to how much power there new build will make!

Many of these builds are very high Dollar builds with aftermarket blocks , forged cranks and high port or wide port heads, the needed intake manifold and 1100 cfm or better carb, yet it seams these folks don’t believe what there engine builder has told them the motor will make, or they choose to not spend what it takes for even a cheap computer engine analyzer program to answer there own questions!
Excitement and curiosity almost always gets the best of us all. Honestly alot of people have to settle on an engine builder that's located in their area. Often times that builder may be adequate for the machining processes but not have the expertise and experience with a certain make/model engine.

I think it's alright to post about an engine build and possibly gain insight on if its gonna make the power it should or if it will be a mismatched disappointment.

Of course when they post about their engine and combination they get to hear 10% congratulate them on the build and 90% tell them where they are going wrong.

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Old 07-23-2022, 09:35 AM
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When at Westec working with Steve,he has a formula he uses for street engines he has arrived at over years and hundreds of engines of all brands.Moderate hipo street engines withcams in the 230-240 range and running on 91 pump gas his dart goes to 1.25 HP per CI.For cams in the 250-260 range he moves up to 1.5 HP per CI.Not gosple but will get you in the hunt.Did not talk about full race engines.FWIW,Tom

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Old 07-23-2022, 09:38 AM
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So everyone with a build going on should just keep quiet and not share? I always viewed it as fun, who can come close to the dyno results but maybe not? I'd bet 99% of the threads was about having fun guessing and had nothing to do with questioning the builder or not having some software program.

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Old 07-23-2022, 09:47 AM
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I have started those threads many times over the years on my RA V and the stroker 301 engines.Tom

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Old 07-23-2022, 10:11 AM
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As was mentioned. I think it's just a fun exercise. As most if not all these engines end up on the dyno. Another thing that is not mentioned is, some of you folks do this for a living and us grunts look to you for opinions. That in itself is a compliment to people that reply. just saying.

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Old 07-23-2022, 10:32 AM
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agree, Its just a fun exercise.

quite a few race experts here and their experience on expensive dyno's make em plenty credible. fun to get a bragging right to say "well -big name guy- says it makes around 5,000 hp" lol, at least I feel that way.

I recall Pete McCarthy stated in a magazine talking about street power "If I don't have enough power to shred the tread off a recap I'm just not happy" thats me to tee! now that i'm older I know my niche I want, burn a lotta rubber and run in the low 12's. where iv'e usually been.

on another note though, seems a lotta race questions/racer replies in the "street" section. i'm guilty of that, but I enjoy it when a been there done that guru replies. info you can take to the bank!

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Old 07-23-2022, 11:12 AM
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I would like to say thanks to post 14 for being 100% honest in his reply because this also the type of reply I was looking for !

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