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#1
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Clutch travel
I still have a little scratch sound when I power shift or shift at higher RPMs. I don’t know if I should bring the pedal UP/DOWN or adjust the stop. Before I ever drove the car I brought the clutch pedal up even with the brake. My nephew and everyone else that drove it has commented on how great it drove and the pedal felt it just scratches when you power shift/short shift. Suggestions,?
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468/TKO600 Ford thru bolt equipped 64 Tempest Custom. Custom Nocturne Blue with black interior. |
#2
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Only issues (with having the pedal the same height as the Brake Pedal) are:
When you "Power Shift", (with the clutch pedal in the high position), now the clutch pedal might be pushing the diaphragm fingers over center and will cause the parts to fatigue over time. Something to think about. You can adjust the linkage to allow the pedal to be higher but now you also increased the distance for the pedal to travel before it bottoms out at the carpet. Pontiac Engineers put stuff in given places for a reason. Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#3
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Hydraulic clutch, nothing about the setup is stock so I don’t know where to start with Pontiac engineering.
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468/TKO600 Ford thru bolt equipped 64 Tempest Custom. Custom Nocturne Blue with black interior. |
#4
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Most of your basic slaves, especially OEM, are not adjustable. However since your kit is aftermarket they may have supplied and adjustable one as that's pretty common in the aftermarket these days and a common upgrade on newer OEM stuff. I run mechanical linkage on all my stick cars so adjustment is easy. You'll want a small amount of free play at the throw out bearing so you aren't riding on the throw out bearing all the time. How much free play you give it will affect engagement with the pedal off the floor. This becomes and feel preference per individual. I prefer my clutch to engage/release at least 3-4 inches off the floor while still maintaining a bit of free play at the throw out bearing. This assures full clutch release slightly before I even hit the floor with the pedal. It's comfortable for me to power shift without moving the pedal so far this way and it's comfortable to daily drive this way as well. You'll have to play around with it and find a comfortable spot for you. Lastly, If the clutch is releasing all the way and you have no problem with putting it in gear while sitting still then your high rpm quick shifting gear scratch sounds more like a syncro issue. But try adjusting the clutch first if you have an adjustable slave. The Syncro issue with the TKO starts with the fact that the gears in the TKO are quite a bit larger than a Muncie, which means they are also heavier, but they use the same size syncro as a Muncie or Top Loader which isn't exactly a good thing as a larger heavier gear is a little tougher to slow down making those Muncie size sycnros work harder. That's been a TKO downfall since it's inception. The fix has been paying extra for better syncros, (carbon fiber lined etc...) as well as modifying the shift levers for smoother operation but that's always been an extra cost upgrade. Works well enough for those of us that street drive the car as well as a little fun now and then. The more serious solution for those that race with these transmissions is to just have the trans converted to a crash box. Another overlooked issue with the TKO is bellhousing alignment. That has to be spot on because the input shaft uses a taper bearing rather than the old ball bearing on a muncie input shaft. Without proper bell housing alignment it can and usually will cause sticky shifter issues. Last edited by Formulajones; 08-11-2022 at 10:33 AM. |
#5
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65 LeMANS , SD performance 462ci Engine, Tremec TKX 5 speed with a 3.73 geared 8.5" 10 bolt |
#6
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the flywheel that I had to replace looked bluish. I have talked to a few mechanics local who while not performance shops indicated that if I had the stop adjusted too long the clutch was not fully engaging. It may be enough to drive but not enough to “speed shift” does that sound plausible.
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468/TKO600 Ford thru bolt equipped 64 Tempest Custom. Custom Nocturne Blue with black interior. |
#7
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Quote:
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65 LeMANS , SD performance 462ci Engine, Tremec TKX 5 speed with a 3.73 geared 8.5" 10 bolt |
#8
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If you're getting a little "snick" when you snatch a gear, that says your synchros haven't slowed enough to engage cleanly because the clutch disc is still in contact with the flywheel and spinning the input shaft.
If you're saying you get a little tire chirp with off the gas gear changes, I would have to assume your clutch slave cylinder is releasing too quickly causing abrupt engagement. Does your slave cylinder have an adjustment for bleed-down rate?
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Triple Black 1971 GTO |
#9
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You can adjust the clutch with enough free play and disengagement and still have the gears nip each other when aggressively shifting. That's why these transmissions really need the syncro upgrade when buying them if you plan any aggressive driving. Last edited by Formulajones; 08-11-2022 at 02:31 PM. |
#10
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I adjusted the stop on the pedal. The shifter just falls into place now when shifting normal and feels all around better but it still has a gear clash noise when shifting aggressively. My machinist setup my bellhousing indexing and all the other things so it’s not that I don’t suppose. Did anyone buy their kit from American Powertrain? As usual I can’t get them to answer the phone and the literature doesn’t give me info on which master I have to do research.
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468/TKO600 Ford thru bolt equipped 64 Tempest Custom. Custom Nocturne Blue with black interior. |
#11
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Speed shift should be OK but power shift might not be.Tom
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#12
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I've had these things, with everything else being right, that even a speedy fast shift (off the throttle) is a bit of a problem on a brand new TKO. It's generally not just one gear, it's all of them. This goes back to the syncro being a bit too small, and not being able to slow down the inertia of the much larger gears.
The TKX was supposed to address some of these issues. They've either changed the lining or the taper of the syncro/gear design for more gripping power. Here is a short video that explains things. Easy to see why the smaller T5 with better syncro design, as well as the T56's with better syncro designs shift so much easier. The TKO is still using an antiquated syncro design that was developed in 1938, and to make it worse, they made the gears bigger and heavier. That's why it's worthwhile to have a syncro upgrade in these things. https://youtu.be/MXsRfbOiBhE Last edited by Formulajones; 08-11-2022 at 03:31 PM. |
#13
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A TKO is a TKO though, the internals are all the same and not an American Powertrain issue. They just sell the trans, and possibly do upgrades if paid for. They should however warranty any issue you may have. |
#14
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468/TKO600 Ford thru bolt equipped 64 Tempest Custom. Custom Nocturne Blue with black interior. |
#15
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Adjusting the seat position one notch, or adjusting the clutch linkage a little can make a big difference with shifting. Play around with it before doing anything major. No offense, but you seem to make major changes before trying to tweak what you have. A blue flywheel is not good though. A handful of things that could cause that.
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#16
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I have never driven a car with a TKO but the TKX in my car and the T56 in my buddies 65 GTO both shift super smooth. When I was reading up on the TKX before purchasing it was stated that they had upgraded the synchro's to the same as the T56 trans and or very similar and that it solved the shift issues people mentioned with the TKO. So maybe its just the nature of the beast with a TKO that hasn't had a synchro upgrade that most companies offer?
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65 LeMANS , SD performance 462ci Engine, Tremec TKX 5 speed with a 3.73 geared 8.5" 10 bolt |
The Following User Says Thank You to TB1 For This Useful Post: | ||
#17
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Blue Flywheel tells you the assy in not happy. Also says you have a potential
explosion waiting to happen. Assume you are not running a quality certified STEEL or aluminum flywheel, Right?? Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#18
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Assumptions make an ass of you and me! I am running a Ram billet flywheel now, was running a Centerforce before. I am not making any major changes, I am tweaking the pedal around using the stop and the linkage but I am afraid it is what it is. I am not in the habit of driving the hell out of it on a daily basis but it would be nice to not sound like a crash box. If it tears up I will have it rebuilt, otherwise we are gonna rock it till the wheels fall off.
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468/TKO600 Ford thru bolt equipped 64 Tempest Custom. Custom Nocturne Blue with black interior. |
#19
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So normal driving and normal shifting up or down is all okay, it's only when you try to move the shifter quickly. A lot of guys just live with that and deal with it later since they don't get into racing their street cars much. |
#20
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Yeah as long as I drive like I am driving a “normal” car it is fine. If it give it any real rpm or try to shift it under load it just makes a loud enough noise to piss you off. I mean I paid a lot of money for this thing. I knew I should have gotten the T56 LOL
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468/TKO600 Ford thru bolt equipped 64 Tempest Custom. Custom Nocturne Blue with black interior. |
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