[Cliff R]

Personally, even knowing what I know about the legalities of these situations, I don't have any desire to end someones life over taking hunks of metal from my possession, no matter how much it really PISSES ME OFF!

That being said, and finding myself in a situation where I have caught a theif on my property, it would be a very "fine line" between detaining them for authorities and blowing their guts all over my driveway. If the persons didn't do exactly as instructed, or in any way/shape/form I felt threatened in any way, I'd do the "wrong" thing in a micro-second.....Cliff

[455Grandville]

I used to work for a machine shop off of Chouteau in St Louis. It was so bad that when you left with your coworkers you stayed in a wagontrain until you hit HWY 40. The old city living janitor used to preach "You pull dat gun out on somebody youze better be ready to use it, 'cause if you don't , 'dey gonna bury 'dat gun in yo azz"

[RARON455]

If someone has put me in the situation that has me holding my gun pulling the trigger would not be a problem if that is what it comes down to.

[JLHarper]

Personally, I would never, ever consider using deadly force for a theft even if lawful.
It would be on my conscience every day and not worth ANY amount of material loss.
Now, fear of injury/death is different situation.

[Cliff R]

JL, most people feel as you do, and it's a good thing, separates us from the "animals". Even so, it doesn't mean that we have to be "sheep". The fear of consequence(s) from doing bodily injury or causing death to another human being makes most folks hesitate, or choose other options when it comes to stopping theives, vandals, etc. With this in mind, we should train ourselves, mentally and physically to respond quickly and effectively with deadly force, if/when the situation calls for it. You can sure bet your ars that the POS's stealing all of your stuff wouldn't hesitate to end your life in a second, if given the opportunity.

Just some words of advice. Never, ever, enter a situation where you may need deadly force without being full well able and ready to do so. Guns are not meant to be used to stop petty theft, vandalism, etc. You are only authorized, legally, morally and civilly, to use weapons on another human being to protect your life, and/or the lives of others. Also, keep in mind that pointing a weapon, or firing a warning shot, is not deadly force, but it does portray to the culprit your ability and readiness to use deadly force if/as required.

Most encounters where guns are involved result in very few actual deaths. In most encounters, even at close range, between "highly" trained Law Enforcement and criminals, MOST rounds do not strike anyone, and, only about 20 percent of person/persons hit by gunfire in any/all situations actually die from their wounds. In addition, just because someone is hit, even mortally wounded, does NOT mean that they will stop fighting. The same goes for yourself, if wounded, even seriously, it doesn't mean that you have to stop fighting, or that you will die from your wounds. With this in mind, you can sure bet that if you lay down, give up and/or stop fighting, that your attacker is more than likely going to come up and end your existance!.....Cliff

[jal]

I am in no level an authority on these types of issues, however, I happen to reside in Bucks County, Pa.
I too feel that I would have a major problem sleeping at night if, I ended a person's life over something material. My family would be a different story.
Anyway, we used to have a DA in Bucks County (i believe his name was Rubenstein). About 2-3 years ago this punk breaks into and steals from a guys backyard shed that contained all his business equipment. Landscaping I think. Anyway, the dude gets away but, comes back hous later to take more stuff. This time the owner comfronts him with a firearm, and kills him as he's trying to run away.
Was never prosecuted because, the DA won't have it in his county. Says that anyone who is protecting his livelyhood or family is within his rights to protect.

Not that I could've done it, however, I really admire the DA's thought process here.

~jal

[goquick]

Nice to hear of a desent DA.

[455Grandville]

There has been many cases where a thief has been "caught by suprise" and has ended up killing the victim.
As Sean Connery told Kevin Costner in "Untouchables" as he was looking at a dead man on the floor "Would you feel better if it was you?"

[notquitegto]

I could never immagine using deadly force if someone was stealing my rims. They're freakin' rims. Someone in my house, that's another story. I could probably beat someone to death with my bare hands if they were in my home.

What's the legality of pummeling someone with a baseball bat to "help restrain" them until the cops get there? I suppose you'd be arrested for assault or attempted murder? Anyone know in general?

Mike

[goquick]

notquitegto;I could never immagine using deadly force if someone was stealing my rims. They're freakin' rims. Someone in my house, that's another story. I could probably beat someone to death with my bare hands if they were in my home.



The thing is this; if they steal from you once, they will come to steal from you again. Next time, they just might have their gun out and ready to use in your house. At what point of them stealing from you is enough for you to defend your property and home?
We are not talking about fine upstanding members of society that are stealing your wheels here.

[3 Deuce 64]

you drop them and slip them a sat night special with no serial numbers .

[LeighP]

Old western saying...."Dead thief steals no dubs...."

[Brad_bb]

I think I'm sort of like Cliff. I will be ready to defend my home and property. If they don't do exactly as I say... If they make one false move... It would take a lot of restraint to keep from firing. Legality would make me think twice, but from a moral standpoint, well, I think once they cross your property line and lay their hands on your property, they are accepting the risk of the possible consequences.

Theives are rampant because the law is too soft. Arming the population reduces crime. It's a proven fact, despite what the liberals want to believe. Restrictive Gun control only impedes gun purchasing and ownership by law abiding citizens. I live in Illinois. Chicago city ordinance doesn't allow anyone to own a handgun, yet armed robberies occur all the time. The liberal whacko politicians and city population don't get it that allowing the population to arm itself will reduce crime. I think concealed carry should be legal too. That's even more deterrrence for crime. I understand the reservation by the police officers, but...we have a right to defend ourselves, from rape, murder, and robbery.

Guntalk: Illinois handgun ban challenged
by John B. Snow
An Illinois man who shot an intruder in his home last December has sparked a debate over a handgun ban in the Chicago suburb of Wilmette. Just before Christmas, Hale DeMar, 54, used a handgun to protect his home and family from a burglar who had entered DeMar’s house twice in 24 hours.

The first night, DeMar huddled upstairs with his children as the intruder rummaged through his possessions on the first floor. By the time police arrived, the burglar was gone, but not before he made off with, among other items, a set of DeMar’s house keys. Little did DeMar know that as he tucked his children into bed the next night the burglar was waiting to enter his house again. This time DeMar took his handgun and confronted the man in his kitchen, where he shot him. The wounded crook drove himself in a stolen SUV to a nearby hospital and was later arrested by police.

A justified shooting, right? Not so fast. Even though the local authorities were unable to adequately protect DeMar and his family, they decided to charge DeMar with violating the town’s handgun ban.

"What is one to do when a criminal proceeds, undeterred by a 90-pound German shepherd, a security alarm system and a property lit up like an outdoor stadium?" DeMar said in a letter to the Chicago Sun-Times. One Illinois state representative, recognizing the absurdity of DeMar’s predicament, has proposed legislation that would override such bans when guns are used in self-defense. But the lawmaker, Rep. John Bradley, who hails from more gun-friendly southern Illinois, knows it is far from certain that his colleagues from the northern half of the state will embrace his legislation.
End

I wish my whole family were willing to move to Texas!

[6704gto]

yea but the sad part is the victim will always lose.the thefts out here get away with it.

[goquick]

At 4pm today, cst, a thief in my area was laidout in a memorial service. Just can't cry any tears over his demise... (yep, had to make sure the waste of human was dead.) I don't think his thieving son liked me walking in and making sure that the dead was dead. Niether did his cop brother. Oh well, They can p up a rope for all i care. The bad thing is now I can't take the scumbag to court. But I'll let him have what he has now. Bet he's real hot about now.

[Wick]

First off, this guy was not my friend but I knew him. A few weeks ago he is caught in someones garage so the homeowner used his laser sight and put SIX slugs in him. Needless to say he didn't make it and the homeowner slept in his own bed that night as no charges filed against him.

A man has a right to protect himself, his family and his property by any means he feels and it should be that way. Some of you won't use deadly force and that may work for you, but not me. I work my ass of for what I have and no one will take it away without a fight.

I guess that's just a Texas thing.

[Region Warrior]

Brad bb, your not far from the free State on Indiana.
Alot of Il. folks are moving here for lower taxes.
The right to self protection is a huge bonus.

[Region Warrior]

Originally Posted by goquick

At 4pm today, cst, a thief in my area was laidout in a memorial service. Just can't cry any tears over his demise... (yep, had to make sure the waste of human was dead.) I don't think his thieving son liked me walking in and making sure that the dead was dead. Niether did his cop brother. Oh well, They can p up a rope for all i care. The bad thing is now I can't take the scumbag to court. But I'll let him have what he has now. Bet he's real hot about now.

You got some nads, thats for sure
Wasnt there 2 guys, what about him?

[Region Warrior]

Originally Posted by goquick

notquitegto;I could never immagine using deadly force if someone was stealing my rims. They're freakin' rims. Someone in my house, that's another story. I could probably beat someone to death with my bare hands if they were in my home.



The thing is this; if they steal from you once, they will come to steal from you again. Next time, they just might have their gun out and ready to use in your house. At what point of them stealing from you is enough for you to defend your property and home?
We are not talking about fine upstanding members of society that are stealing your wheels here.

If you drop'm dead, could be saving a future victim from a loss, harm, or worse.
The more thiefs get away with, the more they'l do. And insurance will just keep going up.

[goquick]

The second one is his kid.