[Transporter]

Originally Posted by Shinanigins XD

I'm ready to order all the rear end suspension stuff I need, but I just want to double check with you guys that the rear end I got would work. It's a 10-bolt out of a 69 Lemans.

What have you guys used? I've already heard a few, I'd like to hear more.

I "think" that the rear you have is appox. 62" wide mounting face to mounting face, I was "thinking" that when I had looked at doing this I was going with the ford 8.8 explorer rear which is right at 59" wide AND comes with disc brakes.

I think that the rear you want to use "will" work, however keep in mind, the wider the rear the more backspace you will need on you wheels.

As I have noted before, the inside fender lip to fender lip measurement on these cars is right at 72" you really need to figure at least an inch off of that on BOTH sides for outside clearance.

So your TOTAL tire sidewall to sidewall width should be at or less than 70" with a 62" wide rear you will be limited to about a front side wheel offset of not more than 3"


62" rear
3" right wheel outset
3" left wheel outset
1" right tire bulge out
1" left tire bulge out
___

70" These are approximate but should get you close hope I didn't confuse the issue.

As you can see, with a narrower rear you could run a wheel with a more common offset.

Technically,the wheel offset is the most important part, as that is what will "center" the tires in the wheelhouse.





Stan

[c5farmer]

Haven't used one, but hear the rear end from a V6 S10 pickup is narrow enough and pretty strong. One problem would be the 4 3/4" wheel bolt pattern. The ford 8.8 rear from a ford Escape or Ranger is also narrow and a 4.5" bolt pattern. This site may help you:
http://www.carnut.com/specs/rear.html

Good 63 tempest body measurement info from Transporter!

[JohnFromVentura]

I'm not familiar with your rear end but if it's really 62", you might rethink it? I first tried a 61 Ford 61" rear end and it was to wide so I ended up with a 57 Fairlane 57" face to face and it worked out well. I think, as someone else noted, 57-59 is the best range! When the face to face distance is to wide it really limits your choices on after market rims! John

[mechanickeith]

IIRC,, The difs under the fairmont Fords are pretty narrow. Around 56" drum to drum.

[R 70 Judge]

Originally Posted by JohnFromVentura

I'm not familiar with your rear end but if it's really 62", you might rethink it? I first tried a 61 Ford 61" rear end and it was to wide so I ended up with a 57 Fairlane 57" face to face and it worked out well. I think, as someone else noted, 57-59 is the best range! When the face to face distance is to wide it really limits your choices on after market rims! John

Yep. 57" to 59" is a good range to shoot for. Lots of wheel back spacing choices.

[Shinanigins XD]

Thanks everyone! This is exactly the info I needed. I'm gonna call the local auto wrecking places later today and ask about the S10 Rear ends (seemed like the cheapest and easiest to find when I looked everything up on ebay. Plus most of them come with lower gears and posi's from what I saw.)

As for the bolt pattern, no one freak out, The wheels I'm planning on buying work with both Ford 5x4.5 and Chevy 5x4.75. Not to worried about keeping the original wheels. Looking at some aftermarket but still stock looking Smoothie style wheels, would just need some black paint and you wouldn't know the difference if the car was moving or had the wheel covers on. 15x8" with 4" back spacing, sounds like this would work?

[Doug]

I have followed this thread casually and hadn't soaked up much details until today. A few things that may be an issue are:

There is some confusion on what your "current" motor is. 326? or 389? The text indicates that it is a 326 but the name tag "63 Lemans 389" apparently has led Tom (who is the conversion guru) to believe that it is a 389. Accordingly, he mentioned that you would need a 61-64 flywheel. The thought occurs to me that the '63 326 crankshaft is drilled different than other V-8's so it likely that a 61-64 flywheel will not bolt up.

I assume that with the various rear end options discussed (ranging from coil spring '68 Lemans to S-10 leaf springs) you still haven't decided on one yet. You seem to be set on leaf springs so I would suggest you look at the "problems" you may have with the leaf spring perch location(s) on the various types especially with regard as to where your front and back spring mounting points will be. Generally speaking, the location of the perches could limit the amount of backspacing of tires. Also, with the driver side frame rail being offset (about 1 1/2") to the outside, the rear spring mount location will end up being within the frame rail and possibly having the rear portion of the spring interfere with the gas tank (or the tank strap). A "narrow" spring spacing could also put your passenger side spring mount inside of the passenger frame rail.

Another thing is that any rear end with disc brakes (and trying to use your front drums) could cause some braking problems.

As Tom said, these leaf spring cars tend to "ride high". If you decide on leafs, and depending on how you mount them, you can "lower" that high stance a bit by having the eyes of the springs rolled "down" instead of up (assuming that doesn't cause any additional clearance problems).

I converted one of these cars in '69 using a 57 Pontiac leaf setup, 421/Muncie and I used the original Tempest clutch linkage (funky and flimsy as it looks). I had no problems with that linkage and I drove the car hard and had several drag-strip rounds.

I am currently building a similar setup using a 58 Olds (with 64 Pontiac posi) rear with Mopar HD springs/ 428/ Muncie and original linkage modified to strengthen it.

If you use leaf springs you must do a lot of precise measurements to assure that the rear ends is properly located. Typically, there is NO method of adjustment to re-align the rear. However, a 4-link setup does have "adjustability".

[Shinanigins XD]

Originally Posted by Doug

I have followed this thread casually and hadn't soaked up much details until today. A few things that may be an issue are:

There is some confusion on what your "current" motor is. 326? or 389? The text indicates that it is a 326 but the name tag "63 Lemans 389" apparently has led Tom (who is the conversion guru) to believe that it is a 389. Accordingly, he mentioned that you would need a 61-64 flywheel. The thought occurs to me that the '63 326 crankshaft is drilled different than other V-8's so it likely that a 61-64 flywheel will not bolt up.

I assume that with the various rear end options discussed (ranging from coil spring '68 Lemans to S-10 leaf springs) you still haven't decided on one yet. You seem to be set on leaf springs so I would suggest you look at the "problems" you may have with the leaf spring perch location(s) on the various types especially with regard as to where your front and back spring mounting points will be. Generally speaking, the location of the perches could limit the amount of backspacing of tires. Also, with the driver side frame rail being offset (about 1 1/2") to the outside, the rear spring mount location will end up being within the frame rail and possibly having the rear portion of the spring interfere with the gas tank (or the tank strap). A "narrow" spring spacing could also put your passenger side spring mount inside of the passenger frame rail.

Another thing is that any rear end with disc brakes (and trying to use your front drums) could cause some braking problems.

As Tom said, these leaf spring cars tend to "ride high". If you decide on leafs, and depending on how you mount them, you can "lower" that high stance a bit by having the eyes of the springs rolled "down" instead of up (assuming that doesn't cause any additional clearance problems).

I converted one of these cars in '69 using a 57 Pontiac leaf setup, 421/Muncie and I used the original Tempest clutch linkage (funky and flimsy as it looks). I had no problems with that linkage and I drove the car hard and had several drag-strip rounds.

I am currently building a similar setup using a 58 Olds (with 64 Pontiac posi) rear with Mopar HD springs/ 428/ Muncie and original linkage modified to strengthen it.

If you use leaf springs you must do a lot of precise measurements to assure that the rear ends is properly located. Typically, there is NO method of adjustment to re-align the rear. However, a 4-link setup does have "adjustability".

Engine size: It's the original 326 block that someone bored out to 389. My friend measured it all when we took apart the motor.
But I'm not keeping the old motor, needs too much work. I'm actually going today to look at a 69 428 motor and TH400 tranny the guy is selling out of his firebird. I'd rather go with the 4 speed, buy my dad decided he wanted to keep it instead. Supposedly as a spare if his six speed breaks (which won't happen cause he wont drive it).

If the leaf springs don't work, I'll just go with coils, although I've seen other people manage to do it. I am picking up an S10 rear end Friday and selling the one from the 69 Lemans. Already ordered the leaf spring kit from summit, getting ready to take all the measurements and align everything correctly (having a few more experienced friends helping me out with all of this stuff)

[Transporter]

Originally Posted by Shinanigins XD

Engine size: It's the original 326 block that someone bored out to 389. My friend measured it all when we took apart the motor.
But I'm not keeping the old motor, needs too much work. I'm actually going today to look at a 69 428 motor and TH400 tranny the guy is selling out of his firebird. I'd rather go with the 4 speed, buy my dad decided he wanted to keep it instead. Supposedly as a spare if his six speed breaks (which won't happen cause he wont drive it).

If the leaf springs don't work, I'll just go with coils, although I've seen other people manage to do it. I am picking up an S10 rear end Friday and selling the one from the 69 Lemans. Already ordered the leaf spring kit from summit, getting ready to take all the measurements and align everything correctly (having a few more experienced friends helping me out with all of this stuff)

One item of note, I agree with everything Doug has stated, but if you are dead set on leaf springs, on the issue of rear spring mounts and where you shackle will fall on the "offset" frame rail I will offer this,



Go on-line and look up Landrum spring, these guys cater to the roundy-rounder and race world, in the past I have use their rear spring "slider mount" and it has worked out well.

I offer this suggestion as it would rectify two issues, first it raises your spring mounting point and therefore will lower the rear of the car,

Secondly, and maybe more importantly, you could weld, or bolt these to your frame rails and even thou the one side is offset, I 'm sure that it would be far easier as you are mounting this to the bottom side of the frame rail rail, so you don't have to worry about where your shackle would fall, because you will not have one.

Just something to consider as this would be my preferred mounting method with leafs springs.


Stan

[Transporter]

This might help,

[tom s]

there is no issue bolting a std flywheel up to a 326 crank.I have done two late model engines with 63 326 cranks in them.Tom

[Doug]

I looked into "sliders" for my project. Biggest drawback was that my Mopar HD springs have a long rear section that ends right at about where the subframe rail turns upward creating a curved section of frame-rail "complicating" the mounting of a slider. I opted to use the Mopar shackles by making some "upper shackle" pivot points by welding a section of 1" pipe onto a curved plate which I bolted thru the trunk pan and a similar curved plate on the inside of the trunk. The passenger side was fairly easy but the driver side was complicated by the frame rail. I cut a slot in the bottom of the frame rail for the inside shackle piece to pivot in. I had to cut a big hole/slot in the outside of the frame rail to allow sliding the curved plate into the rail. The pics below give you an idea of what I did.

When I was planning out my project I was surprised to find out that the roundy-roundy guys have made a science of "shackles", using varying lengths/etc to tune their suspension. Of course, the lengths of the front and rear portions of leaf springs need to be considered too, not to mention the load rates/spring rates of the springs.

With my shackle setup the eye of the spring is at about the same height as it would be using a slider.

[gtogoat]

Originally Posted by tom s

I have always thought the ladder bar and coil overs were way better.Almost every leaf car on the stock unibody looked too tall for me.I have done 3 of them now and would for sure do one again with the coil overs.And I found the tunnel needed to be cut all the way back to the front of the rear seat.These cars are not easy or cheap to do properly.Most take the easy way out and put autos in but not that easy with a 63 block.I went with the stick shift and the Hyd bearing on my last two builds.The other not easy deal is doing disc brakes on them.Thank The Lord that PUI did interiors for them.Carpet for a mod tunnel is another pita.Good luck with your project.Tom

@Tom-
May I ask why on your statement "put autos in but not that easy with a 63 block"? You would just need an adapter plate for the 63 block to hold the starter motor-correct? Does the thickness of the adapter plate and/or the starter position present problems? Thanks

[tom s]

Im the last to ask as I have not done or ever will do a auto.There are many on that have done the adapter plate for the starter for a modern auto.Tom

[Transporter]

Originally Posted by tom s

Im the last to ask as I have not done or ever will do a auto.There are many on that have done the adapter plate for the starter for a modern auto.Tom

Tom, where are you mounting your pivot eyes on your ladder setup, also can I assume that you are running a crossover bar between the factory frame rails to support your coil overs?

What are you using to center your rear, a Jacobs bar, or a cross link?


Much appreciated,

Thanks Stan

[tom s]

The center of the front of my bars are about 3in forward of the door opening.My bars are 33in long.The brackets are a boltin deal with a drive shaft loop built in.I used a panhard bar to center.a few members here have been to my house and takin pics.I can put the car on the lift and post more pics if anyone needs them.I built this car about 14 years ago.The car has withstood 6000 RPM launches with 10 in M/T slicks.I drive the car a lot,sometimes to a show 100 miles away.We decide on a boltin deal as the unibody rails are kind of thin and felt welding stuff could weaken the metal.Tom

[Transporter]

Originally Posted by tom s

The center of the front of my bars are about 3in forward of the door opening.My bars are 33in long.The brackets are a boltin deal with a drive shaft loop built in.I used a panhard bar to center.a few members here have been to my house and takin pics.I can put the car on the lift and post more pics if anyone needs them.I built this car about 14 years ago.The car has withstood 6000 RPM launches with 10 in M/T slicks.I drive the car a lot,sometimes to a show 100 miles away.We decide on a boltin deal as the unibody rails are kind of thin and felt welding stuff could weaken the metal.Tom

Thanks Tom, looks good.

[Shinanigins XD]

Hey guys, it's been a while since I've updated.


Engine/Tranny:
Right now I have a 2bbl 350 pontiac and th350 out of a 72 lemans I found for $500 on CL. Needs new pistons and a new cam, so probably going to have it bored .030 or .060 over, and going to get a mild comp. gonna put the holley from my old motor on it. the th350 will probably get a shift kit too.


Rear end:
Got an 02 S10 Rear end, 3:73 posi w/ drum brakes. Going to try to adapt the 4 link off of a later A-Body to see if that'll work. MechanicKieth and Steve Barcack had some ideas on how to do the rear suspension on a budget. will probably be cheaper than leaf springing the car.

Floor:
Most likely going to replace the floor with a second gen F-body floor which has an exaggerated tranny and driveshaft tunnel, read in another thread that that was a good way to go.


Misc:
Got an Offenhauser intake (Not for performance, just looks. this 350 is just going to be a driving around motor).
Got a Hurst Quarter Stick Shifter
Got a Super Duty Scoop

Most likely going to buy aftermarket racing buckets, since my seats both need to be completely rebuilt (frame foam and upholstery). Seems cheaper for now (and my friends don't like getting in a car without seat belts.

Will leave stock manifolds on for now so I can use my existing exhaust I had made for the car.

[Shinanigins XD]

Came in the mail today

[beemergary]

I did a 63 and 61 and made my own panhard bars. I think there the best route to keep things centered.