[i82much]

I didn't read the whole thread, but if you didn't get an oil change yet, send a sample in for analysis and keep it for your records. I would also take a sample at the end of your OCI for the next few oil changes and see what the numbers look like.

[Fullsize455]

Originally Posted by i82much

I didn't read the whole thread, but if you didn't get an oil change yet, send a sample in for analysis and keep it for your records. I would also take a sample at the end of your OCI for the next few oil changes and see what the numbers look like.

You know, that is an outstanding idea. I'm embarrassed I didn't think of that.

[Fullsize455]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

And that is why Toyota kicks their azz.

Why are you here?

[i82much]

Originally Posted by Fullsize455

You know, that is an outstanding idea. I'm embarrassed I didn't think of that.

I'm certainly not giving legal advice on a web forum, but I did go to law school and it makes you think about these things in a certain way.

I once had an Olive Garden cook put hot sauce in a take-out order of soup because we ordered just before closing. We went back and talked to the manager, he asked for me to hand him the soup so he could confirm it had hot sauce in it. I thought for a second and told him that was fine, but I was retaining a sample as evidence. The look on his face was priceless.

[Fullsize455]

Originally Posted by i82much

I'm certainly not giving legal advice on a web forum, but I did go to law school and it makes you think about these things in a certain way.

I once had an Olive Garden cook put hot sauce in a take-out order of soup because we ordered just before closing. We went back and talked to the manager, he asked for me to hand him the soup so he could confirm it had hot sauce in it. I thought for a second and told him that was fine, but I was retaining a sample as evidence. The look on his face was priceless.

Legal or not, that's outstanding advice. I try to think of every angle about everything, but somehow I missed that one. But hey, that's what these forums are for!

I love catching people in lies and calling them out on their BS, and just putting people in their place when they're in the wrong. I know Ben would rather shy away from conflict and do his best to keep the peace, but I would have loved to be in that service department when they spewed that crap about not changing oil on an engine that was so obviously full of metal. As a professional mechanic who takes pride in the work that I do and strives to do the very best I can, I love encountering clowns like that and putting them in their place. I've got too much fight in me to just let things go when right is right.

[i82much]

Originally Posted by Fullsize455

Legal or not, that's outstanding advice. I try to think of every angle about everything, but somehow I missed that one. But hey, that's what these forums are for!

I love catching people in lies and calling them out on their BS, and just putting people in their place when they're in the wrong. I know Ben would rather shy away from conflict and do his best to keep the peace, but I would have loved to be in that service department when they spewed that crap about not changing oil on an engine that was so obviously full of metal. As a professional mechanic who takes pride in the work that I do and strives to do the very best I can, I love encountering clowns like that and putting them in their place. I've got too much fight in me to just let things go when right is right.

Yeah I have had a few situations where pushing back helped me. I hate to do it, but if I am getting the shaft from a business, I will start talking about things like contacting the Attorney General's consumer affairs division (or equivalent), better business bureau, leaving bad reviews on web sites, whatever it takes.

I have only done it twice, but the first time it probably saved me 25 grand. I had my GTO at a resto shop that was taking my money and not getting the work done. I eventually went up there and sat down with the manager and owner and told them I was escalating the matter legally unless the car was completed within a month. Sure enough, they got my car done. But here's the scary part - they delivered my car on a Wednesday and went out of business that Friday.

There were many other customers of that shop that were in the same boat I was, thousands of dollars put into their cars and no real work done on them. If I hadn't gone and pushed them around, I'd have been in the same boat, but because I did they prioritized getting my car done. As it turned out, there were little things wrong with the car but at least the body and paint have held up really nicely for 12 years. I feel bad for the other guys that got hosed.

[njsteve]

Originally Posted by Fullsize455

You know, that is an outstanding idea. I'm embarrassed I didn't think of that.

I use these guys for all my testing. https://www.blackstone-labs.com/

They predicted the expiration of my 6.5 diesel engine precisely when they noticed the spike in lead and tin in the oil. We pulled the engine and the bearings were flaking away from an antifreeze/head gasket issue.

I have sent them samples from my unrestored SD455, my 1989 John Deere lawn tractor, my daughter's Impala SS (which has that dreaded multi displacement LS engine), and every other car I own to them. Very informative.

Here's the ones from my John Deere and the 19,000 mile SD455:

[ponchjoe]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

In case you missed the title, it is about a "Dealer Issue".

It’s not all about you Chief. About time for another hiatus isn’t it?

[necdb3]

You must speak with your pocketbook.

A friend of mine with a Suburban had a similar issue with lifter failure. The dealer replaced the lifters and ultimately the oil pump, the cause of everything. I explained to him that the failure of the pump and the metal going through his engine grossly shortened the life of the engine. He was fine with the repairs and continued to drive his truck. The truck lasted about 20k miles after the repairs, just long enough to get it out of warranty, then was told he is on his own.

He wound up trading the truck in with a blown motor, obviously at a low value.

My personal opinion, I would get rid of that vehicle while it's in good operation before it becomes a real problem after your warranty is gone. I spent 30 years in the car business, as a mechanic, then running parts and service departments for a large dealer body.

Any vehicle from any manufacturer can have an issue, but how it's handled in the end is what makes the difference. The problem with your issue is, it grossly lessened the life of your engine. Giving your engine many years of wear in a very short period of time.

[Simple Man]

Oil analysis is a great idea, get it done soon!

[mgarblik]

The idea of having the oil sampled, is a great one. Blackstone Labs is well respected and I use them. I have been involved in some arbitration cases and been used as an expert witness on occasion. My experience has been if you can solve this situation to your satisfaction without escalating it into a legal matter, you will probably be better off. Some people really thrive on the confrontation, and proving to the world that they are right and everyone is out to get them. You have made clear you are a non-confrontational type of person so I would make a legal resolution, a last option. Not to say you should roll over and be taken advantage of. If your oil filter looks good, the car runs good, and the oil sample from the lab looks clean, you may have dodged a bullet. If the filter has metal in it, the oil sample shows metal, now you have valuable ammunition to move ahead with a legal remedy. My experience has been the legal route is a long one, where eventually everyone loses, except the lawyers. Plan on 2 years in Ohio at least for any legal remedy to finally snake it's way through the system. Many days off work, lots of time and aggravation expended for a few thousand dollars. The most successful cases I have been involved with, the plaintiff had a very detailed paper trail, phone records, e-mails, receipts, service history, names of every single person they had contact with from the day a problem first surfaced. Any break in the paper trail, generally sinks the case. Best results I have been involved with, the car was bought back by the manufacturer. Then the original purchase price was reduced for miles driven and depreciation. So in your case, if the car is now 3 years old, they would take off $$ for the miles driven, and depreciation for it's age. Unfortunately in the case of a Dodge Charger, you would end up in my opinion with 50-60% of what you paid for the car new, best case situation if you take it all the way through the courts. That's why I suggest a non-legal remedy. I sincerely wish you the best outcome. Hate to hear cases like this.

[bird72]

/\/\/\/\ mgarblik................ THX and it is beneficial to hear qualified tales from the trenches. It sadly confirms my take via experience lately on anything trying to right legally. Attorney wins the most and play the ticker game.

[Mr Anonymous]

If its still under warranty, another option for you.... you could hasten its demise I suppose and force a new engine replacement. Drive it to work in first gear, etc. Just a thought, and not necessarily a good one. But it has happened.....

[gtohurstjudge]

Dodge should have given you a new engine.....the one you have now is going to blow up in your face. If you are smart you will get rid of the car pronto.
My opinion as a car repair shop owner for 43 years.

[CONCRETEHART]

A little old school. But my uncle bought a new dodge with the new slant 6 back in the early 60's drove to Mexico City from Oregon and engine was knocking. Took to the Mexico dealer and service manager say's so that is what the new 6 looks like. Drove back to Oregon selling dealer called factory was told to drop pan and roll new rod and main bearings in. 2 weeks later same thing knocking factory say's owners problem so he took it to bank and told them since the hold title they can have car. Bank called dealer who then installed a new engine. It turns out drilling , filing and sand was left inside when manufacturing engine.

[SRR]

The more I think about it...WHY did they fail in the first place? I know your a very maintenance kind of guy. Is this common to most of these engines? As mentioned do an oil analysis and record it so they can't refute that it came from that car. You might want to install a magnetic drain plug if one is available.

[rtanner]

So your worried about the oil change enough, for a 3 page thread, and sending off an oil sample for analysis, yet your driving the car and still haven't changed the oil???

[Fullsize455]

Originally Posted by rtanner

So your worried about the oil change enough, for a 3 page thread, and sending off an oil sample for analysis, yet your driving the car and still haven't changed the oil???

Where did he say that?

[Tambo]

Ben, the "negotiate softly" approach doesn't work with most car dealers. In general, their service advisers are instructed to minimise all costs payable by the dealer - hence the quibbling over your oil change. Before the demise of Ford Australia manufacturing, that company had the worst service record of any brand and I bought a new Falcon F6 (456 hp off the showroom floor). From day one I had problems and dropped it off at the dealer's for rectification. After a couple of times getting "we can't find anything wrong" BS, I wrote a precise list of the problems and stormed into the Dealer Principal's office and placed the list in front of him and told him that if all this wasn't fixed within a week I would put it on Ford's Facebook page, Product Review (same as Yelp), and every car forum in Australia. He asked if I could leave the car with them and gave me a loan car. If there's one thing that frightens them it's bad press on social media, to such an extent that all large companies have consultants monitoring Yelp and such so they can resolve any complaints ASAP and appear to be good corporate citizens.

[Ben M.]

To bring an end to this, I did change the oil. I bagged and tagged the oil filter and the old oil is in a jug specifically marked just in case I need it or decide to send it off for analysis. I did find some glittery trash in the oil and filter when I opened it all up and looked at it (not the silvery paste of hardened cam lobe failure), and the oil was almost 1qt low compared to when I checked it previously several weeks before the car was dropped off. It's all fresh and clean now and I've checked it after a few hundred miles and no more trash is showing up on the stick and it's still clean.

To all who advise selling off the car, I doubt I'll be able to do that short of paying someone else to take it so I'm probably just going to have to live with it until the warranty is up and pray the engine doesn't grenade in the future. The dealer has zero interest in working with me on anything and Dodge so far has said nothing so I'm just going to let it go and consider it yet another lesson learned in buying "new" cars.