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#1
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Combinations running STD flange 4150s on Wenzler Gutsram
I'm interested to hear about any combinations running Gutsram and 4150 flange carbs instead of 4500 flange. I have a nice pair of center-squirter 660s and will have to run them until I get a pair of 4500s or 1 for the nice Victor I have. Not sure they'll be adequate, but 2 660s on the Gutsram will be it initially..
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#2
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I think Bill Blair was running high 9s NA in his 63 421 SD tempest with a bathtub and a pair of 660s.FWIW,Tom
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#3
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We've built a few combinations using 4150's. The Grocery Getter guys made big power using a couple of 4150 HP Holleys with nitrous on a Gutsram, maybe they will chime in.
Are you race only? What are your goals? Last edited by PAUL K; 03-04-2022 at 11:24 AM. |
#4
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How much Power and what cylinder heads, or better yet what is the combo?
I have run a Wenzler Original and a Gutsram for over 20 years with 4150's, Carter AFB's etc.
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66 GTO Nostalgia Super Stock/Street Legal Car 421 CID, stock block, Wenzler Intake, 2- Carter 750 AFB's, 3.90 Gears, Full Factory Interior, Full Exhaust, Stock Suspension 3750LBS 9.77@136.99 Multiple NSCA/NMCA World Champion 66 GTO 389 3x2, 4 speed, 4.33 gear, Montero Red 33K original Miles 67 GTO 2dr Post, 428, Tri Power, 3.55 Gears 80 Trans Am Black SE Y84 W72 WS6 |
#5
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Mine is a new 474 combo...so power unknown. KRE HPs 380 CFM @ 750 lift. 74cc chamber factory 455 block 4.211 bore - w/shrouding notches 4.25 stroke eagle crank estimated compression ratio 11.2 to 11.5 comp cams solid roller 760 lift - 108 separation - 271/278 @.050 - installed at 104 Matched Gutsram with 2 660s 3300 pound early Firebird w th400 w/trans brake, Coan 5-5500 converter and 3.73 9x28.5 bias ply slicks with your basic Calvert suspension, bars, shocks and split monos, Global West Del-A-Lum low friction bushings front and back....stock shock mountings...no anti roll bar and running shackles.. What kind of power and ET/MPH were/are you making with your various 4150 flange Gutsram combos? ..Edit...just read your signature....NICE! Was the 9.77 with a Wenzler 1 or a Gutsram? What heads are you running? Last edited by RBAILEY; 03-04-2022 at 01:20 PM. |
#6
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Thanks Paul. Street driven toy track/car. For now to break into 9s.
Last edited by RBAILEY; 03-04-2022 at 01:02 PM. |
#7
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If it is a street driven car the 660's won't be super friendly driving around but they will work good enough to achieve your goals at the track. |
#8
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See what Carter AFBs Mike has run,they will be a lot more street friendly and I bet run as close as the 660s.Tom
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#9
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Yeah...the 660s run real rough under any kind of light throttle no load cruise situation, but I have found them to idle quite well and actually very easy to drive on the street. I ran them with a Wenzler 1st design T-ram on the street for several years. Its just that the Gutsram runners are so voluminous I was concerned the 660s might starve that manifold. That and the small flange makes the compromise of centering the carb over the bank-to bank offset port openings in the plenum that much more of a compromise/ carb barrel to port alignment problem. The Dominator/4500 flange covers that offset problem a lot better.
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#10
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My combo is 4.190 bore with a 4" stroke 990 Crank. Factory block, 4 bolt billet caps, Comp 274/280@ .050 with a .440 lobe on a 108LSA. 1.65 Crower Stainless Rockers. 2" Heddman Headers, TH400 with a 5200 PTC Converter and 3.90 gear. Full interior, 3.5" full exhaust and Stock Suspension. I have run 2- 600CFM Carters, 2-750 CFM Holleys, 2 -800CFM Edelbrock Carbs, but the car has run the fastest with 2 Carter Competition Series 9755S 750CFM carbs. I shift around 7200/7400RPM. It idles well and drives really good on the street. Most trips are around 20 to 40 miles to a cruise in or to take my 10yo daughter to lunch. Pretty docile on the street and highway about 65MPH. Heres a video https://www.facebook.com/watch/?ref=...mance%20injuns
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66 GTO Nostalgia Super Stock/Street Legal Car 421 CID, stock block, Wenzler Intake, 2- Carter 750 AFB's, 3.90 Gears, Full Factory Interior, Full Exhaust, Stock Suspension 3750LBS 9.77@136.99 Multiple NSCA/NMCA World Champion 66 GTO 389 3x2, 4 speed, 4.33 gear, Montero Red 33K original Miles 67 GTO 2dr Post, 428, Tri Power, 3.55 Gears 80 Trans Am Black SE Y84 W72 WS6 |
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Mike Davis For This Useful Post: | ||
#11
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Cleaning the shop area last night found a 9/16" UHMW spacer that I ran on the Gutsram intake. Due to height limits in a stock chassis/hoodline car I used a flat aluminum top for the AFB's. The spacer went between the intake and top for more plenum volume. With the spacer I picked up almost a tenth.
I have also found with both intakes a Shear Plate under the carbs is worth about a tenth,
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66 GTO Nostalgia Super Stock/Street Legal Car 421 CID, stock block, Wenzler Intake, 2- Carter 750 AFB's, 3.90 Gears, Full Factory Interior, Full Exhaust, Stock Suspension 3750LBS 9.77@136.99 Multiple NSCA/NMCA World Champion 66 GTO 389 3x2, 4 speed, 4.33 gear, Montero Red 33K original Miles 67 GTO 2dr Post, 428, Tri Power, 3.55 Gears 80 Trans Am Black SE Y84 W72 WS6 Last edited by Mike Davis; 03-06-2022 at 11:14 AM. |
The Following User Says Thank You to Mike Davis For This Useful Post: | ||
#12
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Quote:
And btw, I never knew what shear plates for a carb were. Thanks to you and google I do now and they look like something to experiment with |
The Following User Says Thank You to RBAILEY For This Useful Post: | ||
#13
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Wenzler Gutsram outer bolt hole location
It probably would have been easier to tap and drill the heads but once I realized how thick the port wall at the flange end was I decided to remove the material from the manifold and make room for standard bolt pattern outer bolt holes. Now the manifold will bolt to standard pattern non-wide-port heads without drilling and tapping new bolt holes in the head
Last edited by RBAILEY; 03-09-2022 at 06:10 PM. |
#14
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Probably lost 5lbs off the intake.... which is a good thing.
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66 GTO Nostalgia Super Stock/Street Legal Car 421 CID, stock block, Wenzler Intake, 2- Carter 750 AFB's, 3.90 Gears, Full Factory Interior, Full Exhaust, Stock Suspension 3750LBS 9.77@136.99 Multiple NSCA/NMCA World Champion 66 GTO 389 3x2, 4 speed, 4.33 gear, Montero Red 33K original Miles 67 GTO 2dr Post, 428, Tri Power, 3.55 Gears 80 Trans Am Black SE Y84 W72 WS6 |
#15
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Quote:
Eric
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"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" noted philosopher Mike Tyson Life begins at the end of your comfort zone. “The mind, once stretched by a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions.” |
The Following User Says Thank You to Elarson For This Useful Post: | ||
#16
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No Kidding! I can actually feel the difference in weight when I lift it.
The port walls at the flange end are literally 3/4 of an inch thick. This is a 1/2 cutter fully buried ....and as a bonus I didn't create any new holes to patch up with epoxy. |
#17
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Quote:
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#18
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Early HP 950's.
Confession....I didn't remember the size....had to ask Mike Eric
__________________
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" noted philosopher Mike Tyson Life begins at the end of your comfort zone. “The mind, once stretched by a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions.” |
#19
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Wish I had a set of those, but until I can get something bigger' we're gonna find out how a pair of 660s will do.
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#20
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I think 950HP's would be overkill. 750's seem to work the best IMO, but every combo is different.
I made over 780HP with the 750 AFB's on a 440CID set up. In the class I run I know quite a few Mopars and Pontiacs that swapped from AFB's/Edelbrock carbs to HP Holleys as well as Quick Fuel Carbs. They never ran any faster and most went back to the AFB style for ease of tuning. I think the 660's will be fine with some jetting and the choke horns milled off. Sub Stacks seem to help the 660's out. I think you would like the simpleness of AFB's or Edelbrocks, not to mention the ease of jet/rod changes.
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66 GTO Nostalgia Super Stock/Street Legal Car 421 CID, stock block, Wenzler Intake, 2- Carter 750 AFB's, 3.90 Gears, Full Factory Interior, Full Exhaust, Stock Suspension 3750LBS 9.77@136.99 Multiple NSCA/NMCA World Champion 66 GTO 389 3x2, 4 speed, 4.33 gear, Montero Red 33K original Miles 67 GTO 2dr Post, 428, Tri Power, 3.55 Gears 80 Trans Am Black SE Y84 W72 WS6 Last edited by Mike Davis; 03-10-2022 at 07:28 PM. |
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