[turbo69bird]

Idk either of these guys from
Anyone . But let’s not start attacking each other over this .

The OP isn’t obligated to sell and it is correct for his car as well.

The owner of the matching numbers car has a right to want to TRY and get the block as well.

I like seeing original engines back in their cars BUT it’s still up to him. Attacking him isn’t going to help the situation. That’s for damn sure .

He’s not keeping it for a transplant into a Chevelle he’s got a 70RAIII car himself and he’s happy w the engine enough that he wants to keep it for his car. (Obviously more than he wants the money)
.
I see BOTH these guys positions and “ feel “ for both of them.

Something went awry here and attacking him (The OP)
Isn’t gonna help it get better . ( I think Dale Carnegie wrote a book about this didn't he??? )

Let’s all try not to ruin the experience of owning these Pontiacs for these guys. I’m sure this will work itself out OVER TIME without attacks on either of them.

[napster]

Originally Posted by turbo69bird

Idk either of these guys from
Anyone . But let’s not start attacking each other over this .

The OP isn’t obligated to sell and it is correct for his car as well.

The owner of the matching numbers car has a right to want to TRY and get the block as well.

I like seeing original engines back in their cars BUT it’s still up to him. Attacking him isn’t going to help the situation. That’s for damn sure .

He’s not keeping it for a transplant into a Chevelle he’s got a 70RAIII car himself and he’s happy w the engine enough that he wants to keep it for his car. (Obviously more than he wants the money)
.
I see BOTH these guys positions and “ feel “ for both of them.

Something went awry here and attacking him (The OP)
Isn’t gonna help it get better . ( I think Dale Carnegie wrote a book about this didn't he??? )

Let’s all try not to ruin the experience of owning these Pontiacs for these guys. I’m sure this will work itself out OVER TIME without attacks on either of them.

Amen, brother. You said it right.

[FASTASSBIRD]

Let me start by saying. Still not mad at ya. My personal opinion is poor communication coupled with the little cricket in your ear who is still pissed I refused to sell him the air cleaner off of said car. MAYBE I can clear up publicly some misinformation you’ve either received or incorrectly deduced.

So when is a numbers matching car better than not? Is it when you drive it? Is it when look at it and admire it? When I'm driving my car, running through the gears and winding through the twisties, I couldn't care less what number is on my motor. I drive it and it makes me feel great. It's when you sell it that it matters (OK, maybe if you want a ribbon at a show). But really it's when you sell it.

I think honestly you’re missing the point it the aspect of this hobby. It’s the challenge. Your opinions are both valid and quite frankly correct. The caveat to that simply is you can do it with your cars original motor. Personally I drive the piss out of the cars I own. Does it ad value? Of course it does. I even told you that in our conversation when I told you your cash price was to cheap. Numbers matching is ALWAYS better. It’s the challenge that most of us take on. At least for myself it is).

So when this guy Eric first approached me (after he was part of the group that pressured me to post my block VIN) he lied to me and told me the car was owned by another member It took a couple days before he eventually claimed he actually owned the car. He told me he owned it for 5 years. Then later he said 10. Then later again he said 15 years. From the pictures he sent me, the car needs a complete restoration. He claims he has all the parts to do that. But yet after 5, 10 or maybe 15 years, he hasn't. BTW, he also claims to have at least two 70 WS blocks and #12 heads. So what's stopping him? He could have had that car running and driving a long time ago. But is that what he wants? I don't think so.

I’m sorry if you felt “pressured.” Certainly wasn’t my motive. Not others I think. Honestly as I also told you in our conversation I’d have never guessed in a million years that block was the one from my car. I simply like seeing the original blocks reunited with their cars. (More on this in a minute). So one of my sins apparently is in not remembering when the car was given to me. I know I didn’t tell you 5 years. 10 and 15 are very highly probably. I do believe that approximately 5-8 years ago it was finally delivered to me. Primarily because at the time shipping a car cost around 500-1000 bucks and anyone I contacted wanted 2500 plus to go get it because of its location in Wyoming (almost in Canada). Maybe that is where the confusion came? Not sure. I talk 10 miles a minute and even
FASTER when I’m excited which when we were talking I can assure you I was. One member here has notoriously said they like talking to me in person cause they can see when I’m gonna take a breath so he can get a word in edgewise.
As to the WS blocks. At the time I did have 1 and access to another. I offered you the block as I thought you wanted to have an additional one on hand for when the time came to sell yours. Something I still respect and honestly support although with that bad ass motor you are building I don’t think it’s gonna make a difference. Who ever gets it next probably won’t modify it as you’re building it to drive and enjoy. That Block I sold to another member that weekend to generate funds for mine. That member after you decided not to sell it actually said offer it back and make it happen we will worry about mine or the money later. He can chime in if he chooses. I still have access to another WS block. I’d gladly make the arraignments that I said I would before and have it cleaned magged and shipped to your machine shop and cover their costs to verify it’s a good block. Like I said. I understand the desire to have one on hand. The heads I do have. Sitting in bags ready to go. Waiting on the block. The reason I didn’t just stuff a block into the car to drive it is I don’t like to half ass stuff. More on that in a second as well.

I think he wants a numbers matching motor for the sole purpose of selling the car for more money. People have asked that question about my motives but I think the opposite is true.

The reason I want the numbers matching block is because it is the last piece of a very complicated and intricate puzzle I’ve been trying to piece together for a crap ton of years. This car is what brought me into the second gen F-Body’s. Before that I was 67-69 only. My first car was a 68. Still have it. My second was a 69 Trans Am. Still have that and it’s currently being restored although I have since GIVEN it to my son for his 16th birthday. He was literally raised in that car and has many great memories of Hot August Nights and cruising and racing with dad. That car is what brought me to PY and to meeting MOST the guys who have posted on this forum. As far as selling the formula? I literally told you and also texted you that yes SOMEDAY I will sell it. First however my wife had plans to document the restoration as well as the over 100 unique 70 only parts for the future generation to have access to. One of the few reasons the car isn’t done is MOST of the one year only parts were missing. It has taken me this long to learn about them and to amass them. We want to document them and their differences and consolidate that into one place for anyone else attempting a restoration. Sorry if that isn’t what an enthusiast does. Almost EVERYONE here knows this to be the truth.

Eric is apparently a used parts dealer. That's what he does. I don't know if it's his primary gig or a side gig, but it's a business for him. Most of these people posting here are his associates or customers. Most of them only post about parts for sale but not about their cars, or they don't post at all but crawled out from under a rock for this.

Eric’s family owns 40 acres of wine grapes and a winery. I literally told you this. My brother owns an automobile repair shop. Now have I sold parts? You betcha. In my quest to find correct parts, I’ve had to buy whole cars and even whole collections to get these parts. Case in point I had to buy 3 sets of the Uber rare JW wheels at over 10k to get the ones I needed for my car. This stuff doesn’t grow on trees. One of the reason the car isn’t done. I have NEVER lied about moving parts to HELP cover the costs of my restoration. Personally I really do LOVE the chase for these parts and cars. It’s a treasure hunt. Not sure how that makes me guilty of anything, but I totally understand how it might jade your decision to sell me the block. I can honestly and SINCERELY tell you this isn’t about making more money, it’s about the accomplishment of restoring one of the rarest formulas out there to its full glory. And if you think I won’t drive it stay tuned of a video of me blowing the tires off of one of the 885 ,1971 4 speed Trans Am cars which is also numbers matching. I did that Sunday. I buy and build em to play with em not sit in a warehouse.

Another bit of misinformation I think you have been given is “Most of these people posting here are his associates or customers”. Associates you can maybe say. One is a damn good friend and gave me the car. The others are just fellow enthusiasts. Check their profile you will see MOST have been on this form since 05-08, with a couple being founding members. 2 have bought parts from me certainly. See above. When you have to buy whole cars to get little things like windshield eyebrows or the CORRECT dash pad and carpet, you’re gonna have some extra crap yo get rid of. What you don’t know is the VAST majority of these guys I HAVE BOUGHT PARTS FROM! Norwood has provided me with MANY 70 parts he manufactures got stuff from ole pinion head and formula Bruce and tellyshevelli and even Keith. So I suppose that makes them mu associates. Bottom line is it’s not a business for me. My parts sales over the years wouldn’t average out to enough to cover my car payment for my Tacoma a month, but yes, I have sold parts.

As far as I'm concerned, I may as well sell my motor to a used classic car dealer like Coyote Classics or Maple Motors so they can flip it for more money. I'm not interested in that. If I could reunite my motor with a car owned by a true hobbyist I would do it in a heartbeat. I don't think that's what's happening here.

I think if you privately asked a few members of they thought I was a “true” enthusiast almost all of em would agree I might possibly be one of the most enthusiastic collectors out there. I spend hours and hours and months and years reading studying comparing etc these cars and parts. Hell when we went to Hawaii for a special occasion I was reading posts on the beach. There is no aspect of my life firebirds don’t permeate. My kids knew the differences in body styles before they were 5. My son and daughter were brought home in birds (her in a 85 trans am. Don’t lynch me please) my toolbox is the snap on anniversary box. I can quote production figured stats part numbers you name it. Sadly after talking with you, if you didn’t get how enthusiastic I was then that part really does upset me. It get calls texts and emails daily at all hours and man I love to jump on and talk these cars with guys. The Australians FaceTime me just to ask questions because I am one of the few who will do that. I’d rather drive a Firebird then any other car including exotics etc that’s a damn fact. I own at least 5 or 6 at this point. The 71 being the latest. Dragged it out of a field in 2020 and spent 2 years making it mechanically sound enough to be a daily driver. It finally is and will be for awhile. Been approached no fewer the. 10 times about selling it for probably over 6-8 times what I paid for it. Like you John it isn’t about the money. Wine sales are always good. I just love the car, so do my kids and even my wife enjoys them or at least the enthusiasm it gives me. She said all that knowledge you have in your head needs to be put down for others to have access to later on. Hence the webpage/blog. I won’t say I feel insulted by you saying you don’t believe I am an enthusiast, but it hurts me and saddens me. Anyone here can ask me questions at any time and I’ll answer. It’s all about the cars.

So this person has lied to me repeatedly and I don't think his motives are pure. He doesn't care about the car. It's about the money

I don’t know I would use the word lied. Yes I didn’t post on your previous thread it was my car. I did that for a couple reasons which I personally feel are valid. You may not and I understand if you don’t. 1st is quite honestly I wanted to feel you out. No offense I didn’t know you. 2nd I didn’t want others bugging me or yourself. I didn’t want to deal with guys asking me if I wanted to sell the car etc. lastly, as my wife can confirm. It was going to be a “surprise” post for the page. It would have made excellent content and helped drive people to the page of the post was long lost original motor reunited with rare formula, or something to the like. I certainly didn’t want to jinx it by announcing to the world. Their was no subterfuge intended. When we spoke the first words out of my mouth were that’s “MY” block.

In closing, please don’t take this as an attack on you man. Honestly. I know some stuff others here don’t. Like where you’re getting some of your info from etc. All I can say is consider the source. He’s jade for MANY reasons. Not the least of which is I refuse to sell him the air cleaner of said car despite him asking almost every day for months. I finally had enough and told him if he wanted the air cleaner THAT bad I’d selling him the car for 35k (an outrageous price at the time on purpose) JUST to shut his ass up (didn’t work sadly). I understand sincerely that the confusion you have listed coupled with the behind the scenes info you have gotten has given you a STRONG distaste for myself. It’s sad honestly. We spoke about your car at length. We spoke about the TKX at length. I love what you’re doing and think it’ll be a kick ass car. I’d never advise it to a numbers matching car but what you’re doing to a non numbers matching car is fine and nothing that can’t be reversed easy enough. No hard feelings from my end John. Honestly. I’m sad that’s true maybe even a little heartbroken, but you don’t deserve me being mad at you. At least the block still survives. Maybe someday it’ll find its way back into a spectacularly ordered street sleeper formula. I as well as a few other members clearly hope so. It’s about preserving the history of the Pontiac. Not many exist and even fewer of this particular combo exist with their original drivetrain (including transmission). I certainly don’t want to get into the financials but I can honestly say you could gift me that block and I’ll still never recoup what I’ve spent trying to piece this puzzle back together. What I can’t buy however is the friendship and comradely I’ve gotten in my quest. Maybe someday you’ll see things different and we too will be friends. No bad JUJU curses over here man. I hope that motor turns out even better then you plan and I know already that the TKX was a FANTASTIC idea and will certainly make the car more enjoyable to drive. M-22 and 3.42’s certainly are a challenge. Please take some time maybe talk to some of the older members about things and reconsider. I won’t hold a grudge. Not enough time in life to stay mad over stupid stuff. Good luck with the Trans Am

[71GP76TA]

If it was my block and I was offered a fair price and a replacement block.... by all means I'd do it... if I was pulling the engine anyways. The original block belongs with the car it originally came in... plain and simple. Who cares if it adds value to the current owners car... It isn't about the money.. right???? Fact of the matter is... once that block is reunited with that car.. they will never be separated again.

If the person in possession of the block was a true enthusiast and genuinely cared about these cars he would cut loose of the block. It sounds like the buyer has been more than fair in his offering for the block.... deceptive??... maybe .. maybe not.. Regardless.. the block belongs with the car.. The person in possession is pulling the engine anyways... no skin off his teeth in that aspect.

[Goated66]

What happened to, “Folks, I promise that if I don't use the block, and somebody here has the car it came from, I'll make every reasonable effort to reunite them. That would make me happy, but let's not put the cart before the horse.”
~jhein

It’s my hope this will get hashed out in time. I can honestly say that I’ve had good intersections with both parties involved (albeit brief with Jhein) and I’m hoping that a deal can be done where both parties walk away feeling satisfied. Hopefully this original engine will be reunited with the car.

[Ramairnacho]

Fat birds ericbi didn't bugg you everyday for your air cleaner. It has broken studs and missing parts. More fricken lies. Yes the Australian men like you that's cool I'm sure you help then get all the parts they need and not cheap you profit quite well from my knowledge of what you said is that they have money. Im.not afraid to voice my opinion on how you treat other people. You loo at your car as treasure like you said. You lied to me about my original manifolds telling me to trade them to you along with 1500 for a starter because you need them for this car and to use other ones I bought with incorrect dates. I'll never forget your arrogant actions. Since I have nothing really to give to these Facebook or py friends or network buddies you like so much they don't like me no more and I'm ok. I don't need your parts man. I tried to be your friend but you said im.your customer. I'm not a cricket man. I m not afraid of any man. Wimps don't drive these types of cars. I hope John enjoys his engine and stores it well. Originally he just wanted advice on his block ,like I did with my date codes and showed you my manifolds but it's in your nature to try to get it all. I need nothing from you. I know have an extra early set that are 3 hole and where for you but I'd rather keep them now. I'm not buying friendship it's not worth it to me. I had my car all my life since I was 6 it was my dad's car. I.worked hard for it bought it at 8 and still own it. Yes im.proud of it and will never sell it. I been rich I been poor but alway saved it, to me it priceless to.you it's treasure big difference. Im.also thinking to restore a car and document everything you might get top $ right. Im.not stupid I know the value of our cars since I joined I like acting dumb to test a man's honesty and intentions. Payback is a bitch man but fastbirds don't loose sleep over your treasure,.

[FASTASSBIRD]

Ignacio, I wasn’t going to respond to you. I have determined you unworthy of my energy. Here are 5 separate instances where you asked me to sell you my air cleaner. One IRONICALLY you suggest I sell you mine and use a 71 on mine. I got plenty more if anyone wishes to see em but pretty sure 5 will do, and that’s just from Facebook. Dozens more in my text message archive. To publicly clear something up when I offered to buy your manifolds at the time I was unaware they were your originals. After you pointed that out I jokingly said use the later one and sell me yours. This is fact I’ll own it publicly. It was mostly joke however I will also say publicly had you agreed I’d have taken em. For that I sincerely apologize. For the record of the tin shields are installed you can’t see the dates. That doesn’t make my joke/actions right just a point of fact. Now I will say publicly. It isn’t “my friends” it’s the community. They don’t like you. This whole thread is mainly because you’re a cricket and run your mouth. You’ve basically ruined John’s Pontiac experience because you GOT INVOLVED WITH SOMETHING YOU HAD NO REASON TO BE INVOLVED WITH. You’ve just pissed me off even more. I don’t blame John ONE BIT. It’s you who’s the root of the evil here you just gave him bad info like you have MULTIPLE other people hear and on Facebook. There is a reason you’ve been kicked from pages chats and forums. It isn’t me bud. It isn’t me. There are reasons less and less people post on your threads too. Stop take a long look in the mirror dude. Don’t bother denying it either. I’ve seen PLENTY of screenshots of texts messages posts etc where you bad mouth MULTIPLE people from myself as well as others both here and on Facebook. You have to ask yourself why WHOLE communities dislike you. I’m not scared either. Others here just hope you’ll eventually get a clue and go away. Me I’ll say it. GO AWAY.

John. I know already your upset. Please except my sincere apology. You should have never been dragged into a mess like this. It was never my intent to deceive you and it most certainly isn’t my intent to pair that block with this car for more money. This community holds numbers matching in the highest regard as I’m sure you’re seeing so most will never understand why anyone wouldn’t want to see the reunited. I just wanted to publicly apologize for dragging you and your car as well as mine through the mud. I’m sorry.

Ignacio don’t bother even replying. I won’t respond again anyways and all it’ll do is further prove the points I am making. Take a hint. Just walk away

[Ramairnacho]

yep I was looking for air cleaner no. dought about that but I still am I like ram air air cleaners I own 3 I think,misplaced original at friends house. So whats your point? I'm not lying you tried selling me that car for 12-15k when I asked you for a hood and i.almost bought it! But then you said you where going to get it running and get 35k before you moved to Hawaii. I don't care anymore you fricken lie man. I was your customer but you treated me like ****. Get block.dont get it I don't care but you didn't run me off . I was looking for a fricken hood for my 1970. Get it running get your 35k it's your plan man.

[b-man]

Okay we’re done here.

This sure got ugly.