[ponchjoe]

Hey all,

I am looking to add EFI to my driver, has anyone used the Aces EFI kit and if so, any feedback?

Thanks
Joe

[JLMounce]

I see advertisements for them, but don't have any direct experience. I can tell you, that over the Edelbrock Pro Flow 4, I'd purchase the similar aces kit for one reason. Dual wideband sensors. In a sequential port injection kit, having a single oxygen sensor on a single bank is not a smart move.

[65madgoat]

Go with fitech for your driver. Forget Aces knockoff. If you want to save a few bucks the Summit generic efi is actually made by fitech.

Compared to a Holley Sniper, all fitech parts are oem replacement parts. Customer support is great, and 3 year warranty from Fitech to boot.

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by 65madgoat

Go with fitech for your driver. Forget Aces knockoff. If you want to save a few bucks the Summit generic efi is actually made by fitech.

Compared to a Holley Sniper, all fitech parts are oem replacement parts. Customer support is great, and 3 year warranty from Fitech to boot.

I'm biased, but inclined to agree with this. I can't say if the Aces stuff is a great product or a terrible product.

What I can say is that I've had multiple FiTech's on multiple vehicles, including mine that has been in service since 2015. It's never left me stranded. Only the nut behind the wheel has done that by refusing to fix a broken fuel sender and running out of fuel a couple times.

The FiTech is a great entry level EFI solution at a decent price. I'll only say the same thing I always say. The car has to support it. If the car has terrible wiring, or has engine issues like exhaust leaks, excessive blowby etc that carbs just don't care about, you need to fix those issues first before going to any type of EFI system.

[ponchjoe]

Interesting, FI Tech in my research, is the worst out there although I know they recently updated some key components to help reliability.

[Formulajones]

I think Fi-Tech early on, like many new things that hit the market, had their bugs to work out but that was years ago. I haven't seen many complaints in more recent times.

Similar deal with Holley. Probably the largest used EFI in all of motorsports. Snipers being Holley's low cost entry level deal similar to Fi-Tech. Snipers have had some issues but overall like Fi-Tech, it's a very small percentage. As JLmounce eluded to, most can be linked directly to the car or the install itself.

We've been running 2 Sniper Stealths for more than 3 years and neither of them have had any issue at all.

Never heard of Ace till now. New player I guess?? I've only had direct experience with Holley and FAST.

[JLMounce]

Research is kind of pointless on these things. Whether it's the Sniper, the FiTech, or any of the derivatives of these two systems, you'll likely hear the same thing. Pile of junk, poor service etc.

The tech service from the Holley umbrella brands is woefully inadequate. It's staffed by people that do nothing but read from a knowledge base. The service you tend to get from FiTech seems to be better, with the caveat of actually being able to get on the phone with them.

I have a very early run 300001 FiTech GoStreet 4. In terms of the units go, it represents the worst software development, the worst and slowest ECU, the worst firmware and the worst wiring harness. And yet, the thing won't die. The only issues I've had with my FiTech in 8 years of operations is that the main harness connector burned up due to being undersized for the amp load. I spent $40.00 on a nice weatherpack connector, and spent an hour repinning the harness. No issues sense. With the second iteration of the systems, the replaced the connector and upsized the fuel pump wiring to combat that issue as well as updating the firmware which is much faster, interpolates better and handles timing control better.

I recently flashed my original 195t firmware to the 198i firmware found on the second generation FiTech units and there's a noticeable difference in driveability with timing control.

The most recent iterations now have a further improved harness protected by relays. Most people that have success with any of these units (EFI in general) have everything triggered from separate channel relays. I myself use and MSD 4 channel solid state relay. The new units handle this for you in one kit. The firmware has also been updated, but I don't know much about it. I would assume it's once again faster and probably provides some other benefits.

Of all the units on the market today, they are all going to work for what you want. None of them are immune to possible issues; they are a mass produced part after all. That said, 90% of issues people report on are caused by poor installation, or a car that is in no condition to put electronically sensitive equipment on.

Key to success for these things include no skimping on the fuel system as the top priority. Stay away from the auxiliary fuel reservoir stuff. Buy a new EFI ready tank and put an OEM grade fuel pump in the tank. Make sure the wiring on the car is in good order and that it is grounded well. If you have any vacuum or exhaust leaks, fix them. If the car has a propensity to overheat with a carb, it'll probably be worse once you put an EFI system on it. Fix that as well.

Then make sure you don't half-ass the install. The oxygen sensor should be as close to the head as possible while seeing the most amount of cylinders it can. This is typically in a header collector or just past the manifold outlet if you run manifolds and down-pipes. There should be no exhaust leaks up-stream, or within 18" downstream of the oxygen sensor.

Finally, none of these systems are truly "self learning." They don't know what your engine wants or needs, they can only learn to do what you tell it. If you tell it to do something the engine does like, it'll produce poor results. So you do have to have at least a basic understanding of how to tune your engine in a traditional fashion. Realize that some amount of user defined tuning will always be needed. Most often this relates to off-idle transients in most of these systems. Sometimes you may need to work on fuel cut controls as well.

If you keep those things in mind and set yourself up for success, you'll have success, regardless of which system you purchase.

[ponchjoe]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

Research is kind of pointless on these things. Whether it's the Sniper, the FiTech, or any of the derivatives of these two systems, you'll likely hear the same thing. Pile of junk, poor service etc.

The tech service from the Holley umbrella brands is woefully inadequate. It's staffed by people that do nothing but read from a knowledge base. The service you tend to get from FiTech seems to be better, with the caveat of actually being able to get on the phone with them.

I have a very early run 300001 FiTech GoStreet 4. In terms of the units go, it represents the worst software development, the worst and slowest ECU, the worst firmware and the worst wiring harness. And yet, the thing won't die. The only issues I've had with my FiTech in 8 years of operations is that the main harness connector burned up due to being undersized for the amp load. I spent $40.00 on a nice weatherpack connector, and spent an hour repinning the harness. No issues sense. With the second iteration of the systems, the replaced the connector and upsized the fuel pump wiring to combat that issue as well as updating the firmware which is much faster, interpolates better and handles timing control better.

I recently flashed my original 195t firmware to the 198i firmware found on the second generation FiTech units and there's a noticeable difference in driveability with timing control.

The most recent iterations now have a further improved harness protected by relays. Most people that have success with any of these units (EFI in general) have everything triggered from separate channel relays. I myself use and MSD 4 channel solid state relay. The new units handle this for you in one kit. The firmware has also been updated, but I don't know much about it. I would assume it's once again faster and probably provides some other benefits.

Of all the units on the market today, they are all going to work for what you want. None of them are immune to possible issues; they are a mass produced part after all. That said, 90% of issues people report on are caused by poor installation, or a car that is in no condition to put electronically sensitive equipment on.

Key to success for these things include no skimping on the fuel system as the top priority. Stay away from the auxiliary fuel reservoir stuff. Buy a new EFI ready tank and put an OEM grade fuel pump in the tank. Make sure the wiring on the car is in good order and that it is grounded well. If you have any vacuum or exhaust leaks, fix them. If the car has a propensity to overheat with a carb, it'll probably be worse once you put an EFI system on it. Fix that as well.

Then make sure you don't half-ass the install. The oxygen sensor should be as close to the head as possible while seeing the most amount of cylinders it can. This is typically in a header collector or just past the manifold outlet if you run manifolds and down-pipes. There should be no exhaust leaks up-stream, or within 18" downstream of the oxygen sensor.

Finally, none of these systems are truly "self learning." They don't know what your engine wants or needs, they can only learn to do what you tell it. If you tell it to do something the engine does like, it'll produce poor results. So you do have to have at least a basic understanding of how to tune your engine in a traditional fashion. Realize that some amount of user defined tuning will always be needed. Most often this relates to off-idle transients in most of these systems. Sometimes you may need to work on fuel cut controls as well.

If you keep those things in mind and set yourself up for success, you'll have success, regardless of which system you purchase.

Yea Jason I get it, only the bad gets out there on anything. I appreciate the insight

[Lee]

" 3 year warranty from Fitech to boot."

FAST gives a lifetime warranty on their EZ kits.

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by Lee

" 3 year warranty from Fitech to boot."

FAST gives a lifetime warranty on their EZ kits.

I didn't know that. Looked it up and it's a pretty no-nonsense policy as well. Good on them!

[Lee]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

I didn't know that. Looked it up and it's a pretty no-nonsense policy as well. Good on them!

They are owned by the same people who own CompCams and Edelbrock, so there is substance behind that warranty as well.

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by 65madgoat

Go with fitech for your driver. Forget Aces knockoff. If you want to save a few bucks the Summit generic efi is actually made by fitech.

Compared to a Holley Sniper, all fitech parts are oem replacement parts. Customer support is great, and 3 year warranty from Fitech to boot.

That's funny, my experience with FiTech was the total opposite. They sent me a 600hp unit with a dead ecu, and their CS sucked.

[Scott65]

I'd add, to be honest with yourself about what the goals are. Buy once cry once stuff. Also, any research you can do about design and construction of the ECU would be worthwhile probably. i.e. Holley's ECU's last I heard were potted, and internal problem means death. I still occasionally hear stories about "bricked" Holley ECU's. Just depending on what you want, and how much work you're willing to do, there's some really good stuff out there. There's even some made in America stuff for folks that still matters to. There are some new players that show promise and feature rich. Maxx Ecu to name one. I did mine twice, and though the first one(FAST) was dead reliable and performed well, I wish I'd skipped straight to where I am now (Megasquirt). I was pretty early in on the FAST, and it was very expensive for what it was and compared to today's pricing. Most any of the commonly available stuff will "work".

[i82much]

Call me crazy but there is something to be said for a good carburetor. Set the float levels, idle mixture, and choke properly and you can enjoy your car year round without much hassle.

[napster]

I had FI-tech for too many years with problems on a 1970 GTO 461. Replaced it with Holley Sniper and it runs like a top. Also, have Fast EZ in a '78T/A with a 461 for many years with no problems.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by i82much

Call me crazy but there is something to be said for a good carburetor. Set the float levels, idle mixture, and choke properly and you can enjoy your car year round without much hassle.

I agree, simple is better.
FI might get you a tiny bit more power but the extra cost and complication is not worth it IMO.
But it might be fun to play around with someday. Do it all on a laptop......
Nah, I own 6-7 quality Holley carbs.
Im good. Might even buy a all billet 1100+ cfm 4150 carb for my next one.

[Formulajones]

I agree with a lot of that. I'm a carb guy to the core but like dabbling in EFI. I never viewed it as superior though.

Our cars have not run any faster at the track with EFI and drivability is about the same. There are only 2 real advantages I've seen with EFI. 1 is a pinch of mpg with EFI because I can more precisely tweak specific cruise areas without affecting another area.

The other is ease of tuning for the elevation changes we deal with. Driving most of the time at 5000+ feet with DA over 9000 in the summer, and then going to the track close to sea level where I had to either change the carb tune or make a compromise. The EFI makes that effortless now with a few key strokes. The datalogging is a nice bonus.

These are just the cars I play with though. Our daily drivers still use a good ole trusty carb.