[Midniteauto]

Hi folks, brand new to the forums, sent by Paul from POCI. we are restoring a 71 Trans Am for a customer and will have a lot of questions, hopefully you all can shed some light on this.
We are currently ready to install the engine, trans and subframe. Should there be any body color overspray on the underside, and were the fuel/brake lines installed when the body was painted, meaning should they have the overspray as well?
I will be posting photos as we go along. If you see anything that does not appear correct, PLEASE say so. We have a great reputation for doing things right and take a lot of pride in it- our customer wants it as correct as we can do, and thats what I intend to give him.
Thanks in advance!

[68bird400HO]

Welcome to the forum. There is a wealth of knowledge here on these cars. A few things i can chime in on:

1) there should be overspray but not sure about the lines.
2) there are differences in some things depending on whether the car is built at Norwood or Van Nuys.
3) your engine appears to be the wrong color. It looks like you used the metallic color which is correct up to 1970. They used a different nonmetallic color 71-73. That formula is available somewhere on here.

[68bird400HO]

Use the search feature and you will find tons of info and pictures in the 70-73 thread.

[TA455HO]

OK, a couple of things so far.

Upper control arm shafts are incorrect for a 1971 - the ones on this car are the later offset shafts that you would only find on a newer car if original.

The nuts on the ends of the shafts are incorrect for the 1971 as well. Those are the newer style nuts that came with the newer style shafts. Original nuts were a cadmium plated locking style nut - larger in size than but same shape as many other locking nuts. More like this

http://amkproducts.com/bulk3.asp?part=B-10518

The upper (and lower, can't see in your pic very well) control arms the outside portion of the arms were unpainted because they dipped the arms in the black color but not the entire arm, leaving the ends in bare metal.

The upper ball joints should be riveted in with a shiny head rivet (bare metal) - the bolts or rivet shaped bolts are OK, but not original and not that hard to check for on an assembled car. Just poke a finger up on the underside - if you feel a nut there it isn't correct.

The brake rotors should have a groove in them at about the 50% point between hub and outer edge.

The dust shields look like they have the rolled edge. Original dust shields had a straight edge around the perimeter with no rolled edge and were unisex, meaning same left/right side and they were a galvanized finish. The service replacements have the rolled edge and are left/right specific and can't be swapped from one side to the other.

I can't quite see the idler arm but they are a very specific shape - might be something of interest there.

If you take some closer pictures I'd be happy to take a closer look.

Chad

.

[TA455HO]

Here's a picture of the older style straight zero offset upper control arm shafts with the bushings and nuts.



I hope that helps some.

Chad

.

[Midniteauto]

Wow, I can see you guys are going to be a HUGE help on this! The car has been in the owners hands since the early 1980s, had been partially (incorrectly) restored and he brought it to us to start over. I will find a pair of control arm shafts but am nervous about riveting the ball joints in and may let that ride as is. A quick search for oem 'ready to go' correct arms didnt come up with anything.. The engine color was a source of great confusion and the customer was informed it was silver/blue metallic, ordered the paint, and asked to have it painted that color. Will see what he wants to do.
Thanks so much fellas! Stay tuned as this continues.

PS- lower control arms were hung ball joint end up, painted til it ran off in drips to simulate dipping, and are not painted on the 2" or so at the end. I did not do the uppers this way. It should be all four? Im finding a lot of inaccuracies in the "firebird/trans am/formula restoration guide.....

[eaglesan13]

Welcome to the boards.

Inline Tube (and maybe others) sells special ball joint bolts that have a head that looks like a rivet. They are still not 100% correct because they will have a nut on the underside, but on first glance from the top they look correct.

As to the engine paint, there is a pretty detailed discussion somewhere on this site. I recently redid the engine on my 71 trans am and I contacted Scott Teimann at Supercar Specialities in Michigan, since I was told he has the formula for the correct color. Scott was very accommodating. He had his paint company mix up a pint for me, which they then put into rattle cans and shipped to me. One pint produced four spray cans, and his price was very reasonable.

[Judge273]

Just to touch on AC....71 High blower switch is black...

Engine color, hose galore. Enjoy the AC stuff!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[68bird400HO]

Is it a Norwood (N in vin) or Van Nuys (L in vin) car?

[Formulabruce]

Hi Midnite!, and welcome to PY Forums
My couple of thoughts
1. Leave the offset upper control arm shafts. These were and are used for the curvature of the road and radial tires to get a easier front end alignment. Pontiac factory installed these sometime in 1972 and up ( If this car will be driven)
2. Ball joints. You can buy "fake rivet bolts" to simulate the rivets and replace one at a time IF you wish.
3. The ends of the upper "A" arms can paint bare steel ( bright) IF the customer is going "full montey"
4. There are some very knowledgeable and Valuable to the hobby folks on here, with a few great restoration threads here is a link , Most recent "full list" is at bottom of the page
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...n+links&page=4

[Midniteauto]

Thanks guys, I will check into those rivet/bolts for the uppers and strip the paint back a couple inches on them as I did on the lowers. Anything like control arm shafts or other known incorrect items will be left up to my customer to decide to leave or address. This TA restoration handbook covers a lot of details, and in other places it mentions nothing. According to them the lowers only were dipped leaving a couple inches bare at the ball joint end. Thats not the only inaccuracy found in the book. You guys are going to be a much bigger help! I am surprised theres not more pontiac restoration guides/judging manuals available.
The engine is indeed the incorrect blue, I wont throw anyone under the bus but they are replacing it for us, it was on them.
The car is a Norwood model. Please dont tell me Norwood cars didnt have overspray on the floor because I just finished that haha.

[Midniteauto]

lower bare, dusted with satin clear.

[68bird400HO]

Well....Norwood cars had overspray but under all of that was red oxide primer. Norwood had a red oxide dip tank for the car bodies. VN did not so those cars where hand sprayed with a black primer. There are really good pictures in some threads. Board member NJSTEVE had a very detailed restoration thread on his 72 that you would find valuable. I can't post the link using my phone, however.

[Midniteauto]

I lucked out there, floors are red oxide and white overspray from shooting along the edges of the rocker lips.

Where do you guys get correct leaf/coil springs? These were the originals and incorrect front replacements. The rear sags and the front is a mile high. I want new and correct on all 4 corners.

[68bird400HO]

Good to hear on the red oxide...

I got my rear leafs from Eaton, the OEM supplier. Many on here will say they make the car sit too high, but i think mine looks good. Note there are different springs for 70 vs 71 vs 72+ and 70/71 had different leafs on the right vs left. Eaton has this on their site though it is a bit confusing. If you just get them from PY, Ames or another parts place, they only supply the 72+ version which might make your 70-71 sit too high. You could also have your originals recurved (rebuilt) if they are decent yet.

I used my original fronts.

[TA455HO]

The service replacement upper ball joints just used normal bolts, too, so not that big of a deal.



Chad

.

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by Midniteauto

I lucked out there, floors are red oxide and white overspray from shooting along the edges of the rocker lips.

Where do you guys get correct leaf/coil springs? These were the originals and incorrect front replacements. The rear sags and the front is a mile high. I want new and correct on all 4 corners.

Eaton makes them still, and has the original blueprints. On a restoration I would Never go above a 126 lb rating, 4 LEAF spring. Never use a "fits all" 5 leaf, or higher rating as you will never get the back down. The 70-72 use a different part number for left and right. The difference is the left has a bit less deflection where its rated.
Many people, including myself order the '73 springs which are the same. These will be black ( originals unpainted with stencil part number)
The front Eaton has as well. Do Not order an AC spring, even the car has AC. Make SURE your whole front suspension stays loose till the engine and all weight is on it before tightening the control arms. FACTORY , the car was down about 1 inch in the rear, vs the front for weight transfer, handling, and ride.
Link to Eaton https://www.eatondetroitspring.com/
PIC of the 71 page for rear T/A springs

[TA455HO]

I was telling Midniteauto in a PM reply that the stance of these cars was originally slightly lower in the back than in the front.

Lower half of this drawing is the design view.



It shows 6.8" from rocker to ground at the lower edge of approximately the front door gap and 5.7" from rocker to ground at approximately the lower edge of the rear door gap. So a slight rake to the rear.

Chad

.

[weranc55]

Originally Posted by TA455HO

The service replacement upper ball joints just used normal bolts, too, so not that big of a deal.



Chad

.

I would not use the inline bolts. Leave the bolts you have in there. The head on the inline bolts is to small and the grade of the bolt is not great. I have snapped a few of them and will not use them anymore.

[Midniteauto]

Keep posting any info and pics you can fellas, such a huge help. Gotta say im pretty disappointed in the lack of info/reference materials out there to do a correct, 'judgeable' TA, sure isnt like a corvette or even a GTO.
Im even struggling getting a correct answer to the color for spring shackles, etc... some say black, other say natural. Obviously these were thrown together at the factory and theres a million variables, really think the only way to do one is to make an educated guess on a lot of stuff, get it judged, and revisit the car again to address major points deductions? How the heck do you guys do it?