[mike leech]

Originally Posted by SDPROMO

In a qualified field the first round money goes to the actual qualified car, not the alternate; he earned his spot on the ladder and receives the 1st rd money if he can't answer the call. The alternate is not eligible for 1st rd money, but is entitled to any money after the first round because he earned it winning rounds.

makes sense to me. Why would customer service not have explained it like that.

[Probird]

Originally Posted by SDPROMO

In a qualified field the first round money goes to the actual qualified car, not the alternate; he earned his spot on the ladder and receives the 1st rd money if he can't answer the call. The alternate is not eligible for 1st rd money, but is entitled to any money after the first round because he earned it winning rounds.

If these are the rules, how can anyone come up with the guy who qualified and broke, or decided he just didn't want to race, gets the money? It says first round gets $50 not the guy who qualified:

Rules & Info:
•Traditional Pontiac V-8 only!
•Super Pro Rules apply
•Everything else goes – Blowers, NOS, Turbo’s and Nitrous!
•Qualifiers must run within one tenth (.1) of their qualifying pass

Payout: Winner $1000; Runner-Up $500, Semi’s $200, Quarters $100 and 1st round $50 (All 16 places paid)

Qualifying – two rounds Sat and the 3rd (final) round will be held on Sunday at 11 a.m.

Kauffman Quick 16 entries can race in a regular bracket class on Saturday. If qualify for the Sunday race, Quick 16 entries can NOT compete in the Sunday bracket class, only non Quick 16 qualifiers. KRE Quick 16 winner does not participate in the “Chief of the Pontiacs” final on Sunday.

The way it is written in the rules is how it should be done. The way things went down is just plain wrong. Just making one fast pass shouldn't qualify you for 1st round loser money if you can't/ or don't want to stage the car 1st round. The 16 in the actual race should be the ones to collect the money. As it turns out neither guy was paid.

Since Danny really wasn't a qualifier and isn't eligible for the 1st round loser money, as stated in the rules above, he should be able to run in S/pro. After all he wasn't a qualifier and only qualifiers can NOT compete in the Sunday bracket class. So was he a qualifier or not?

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by SDPROMO

In a qualified field the first round money goes to the actual qualified car, not the alternate; he earned his spot on the ladder and receives the 1st rd money if he can't answer the call. The alternate is not eligible for 1st rd money, but is entitled to any money after the first round because he earned it winning rounds.

So basically you are saying alternates have to complete 2nd round to get paid round money?
IMO the ALTERNATE EARNED his spot too... did they not run to qualify? ... How did they get to be alternate then? Otherwise might just as well announce "an opening has come up want to fill it?". Did anyone announce alternates need to go two rounds of eliminations for round money? Sure doesnt sound like it.

So.. in this particular case was this rule posted anywhere? "All 16 participants get paid 1st round" turns into ...hidden fine print and the promotor weasels a few extra bucks. THAT is just poor policy IMO.

And didnt the alternate replace someone who didnt make first round? NEITHER got paid best I can tell from these pages of posts. More fine print?

Policies like this sure dont encourage anyone.
They stink!

[GTOGEORGE]

They don't want you to run s/p because of the possible conflict..........waiting on a racer thing BUT again they let frantic 4 cars run in the q16 which I don't think is right.
The lady in customer service was too busy doing anything else beside her JOB to explain anything correctly!!
For the record if your an alternate YOU did not officially quilify BUT and here we go again did Estes get in on a breakage or did he fill in on the open body side.
Also the slowest dragster was dialed in at 8.15 for 1st round of q16. FYI-We also had 2 dragster that are normally there that were absent.

GTO George

[estep455]

Originally Posted by Probird

If these are the rules, how can anyone come up with the guy who qualified and broke, or decided he just didn't want to race, gets the money? It says first round gets $50 not the guy who qualified:

Rules & Info:
•Traditional Pontiac V-8 only!
•Super Pro Rules apply
•Everything else goes – Blowers, NOS, Turbo’s and Nitrous!
•Qualifiers must run within one tenth (.1) of their qualifying pass

Payout: Winner $1000; Runner-Up $500, Semi’s $200, Quarters $100 and 1st round $50 (All 16 places paid)

Qualifying – two rounds Sat and the 3rd (final) round will be held on Sunday at 11 a.m.

Kauffman Quick 16 entries can race in a regular bracket class on Saturday. If qualify for the Sunday race, Quick 16 entries can NOT compete in the Sunday bracket class, only non Quick 16 qualifiers. KRE Quick 16 winner does not participate in the “Chief of the Pontiacs” final on Sunday.

The way it is written in the rules is how it should be done. The way things went down is just plain wrong. Just making one fast pass shouldn't qualify you for 1st round loser money if you can't/ or don't want to stage the car 1st round. The 16 in the actual race should be the ones to collect the money. As it turns out neither guy was paid.

Since Danny really wasn't a qualifier and isn't eligible for the 1st round loser money, as stated in the rules above, he should be able to run in S/pro. After all he wasn't a qualifier and only qualifiers can NOT compete in the Sunday bracket class. So was he a qualifier or not?

thanks rick!!!!!!

[estep455]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

So basically you are saying alternates have to complete 2nd round to get paid round money?
IMO the ALTERNATE EARNED his spot too... did they not run to qualify? ... How did they get to be alternate then? Otherwise might just as well announce "an opening has come up want to fill it?". Did anyone announce alternates need to go two rounds of eliminations for round money? Sure doesnt sound like it.

So.. in this particular case was this rule posted anywhere? "All 16 participants get paid 1st round" turns into ...hidden fine print and the promotor weasels a few extra bucks. THAT is just poor policy IMO.

And didnt the alternate replace someone who didnt make first round? NEITHER got paid best I can tell from these pages of posts. More fine print?

Policies like this sure dont encourage anyone.
They stink!

yep....

[estep455]

Originally Posted by SDPROMO

In a qualified field the first round money goes to the actual qualified car, not the alternate; he earned his spot on the ladder and receives the 1st rd money if he can't answer the call. The alternate is not eligible for 1st rd money, but is entitled to any money after the first round because he earned it winning rounds.

i appreciate you chiming in and truly love this event. the question is still the same where does it say that in the rules? my only point is the rules did not say anything about that and i just dont want somebody else to misunderstand how the q16 is setup. a copy of the rules is posted on here a couple of times and it doesnt say anything but all 16 cars are paid. just make it clear before the race and there wouldnt be any issues. thanks danny

[SDPROMO]

We follow standard NHRA practice on the operation of the race, including, but not limited to, auto-start settings, how qualified cars are laddered, who gets the bye-run in the event the other car doesn't answer the class call, what constitutes a run, etc. I don't know of any event that provides this information. The field was set after the 3rd qualifying round; when race control learned one of the qualified cars would not be able to compete, the call was made for the first alternate. An alternate is not required to race, this is also NHRA policy. In the event the first alternate refuses, the second would have the opportunity. The moment the qualified car announced he was broken, he earned the 1st round money; you do not have to stage the car under its own power to loss the round...you have stage the car to be considered the winner.
I have not seen the payout sheets from customer service, we will not be meeting with the track until this Wednesday, so I don't know who claimed their money and who did not. Our policy is to send out all unclaimed purse money to those who have earned it, providing we have the participant's name and address on the tech card. If the driver that broke didn't claim his round money, it will be sent; we have never kept any purse money that went unclaimed unless we absolutely could not identify and locate the winner by his tech card, and any accusation's that have been made to the contrary are untrue.
Any questions regarding race operations need to be taken to the race director in the tower, and a complete explanation will be provided.

[Badbird69]

Qualifying for the Frantic 4 SHOULD be it's own reward. Allowing those cars to also run in the Quick 16 is not only Double Dipping, but in this case, pushed a car out the bottom - and made it an "alternate". That ain't right.

DF

[johnta1]

I thought they didn't let you do both?

Scott Rex one year didn't/couldn't do both.
(but that may have been his decision)



It also seems to be moved.
Thought it was on Sunday, with the other races.



Who 'double-dipped?

[Badbird69]

2011, I was pitted next to Jim Gnat. We were #1 and #2 qualifiers in the Quick 16. Then two Frantic 4 cars magically appeared in the Quick 16 line up - Frank and Rex. Jim and I looked at each other in disbelief and said WTF?!? I believe Frank had already won the Frantic 4 and Rex had placed. Looks like Frank continues to run both classes. Can you imagine the uproar if KRE did that? Just sayin'

[Scott Roberts]

Are you saying that their qualifying runs from the frantic 4 put them in the quick 16 automatically if they wanted to run that race? If that is the case then I agree, its not right.

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by Badbird69

2011, I was pitted next to Jim Gnat. We were #1 and #2 qualifiers in the Quick 16. Then two Frantic 4 cars magically appeared in the Quick 16 line up - Frank and Rex. Jim and I looked at each other in disbelief and said WTF?!? I believe Frank had already won the Frantic 4 and Rex had placed. Looks like Frank continues to run both classes. Can you imagine the uproar if KRE did that? Just sayin'

Kre would never run both races.. none of their cars can make that many runs without breaking..

[Scott Rex]

Originally Posted by Scott Roberts

Are you saying that their qualifying runs from the frantic 4 put them in the quick 16 automatically if they wanted to run that race? If that is the case then I agree, its not right.

Scott, Passes in the Fast 4 do not qualify for the Q16.

In 2010 I paid both entry fees and made passes for both classes (Q16 and FF) and qualified for both. (I hot lapped the car) I asked Jeff Kauffman before attempting the Q16 and he said he didn't think it was a problem. For some reason (that no one could explain to me) I was not allowed to run the Q16. I really don't know whose decision that was... No big deal...

In 2011 to avoid any confusion on the rules of running both classes, I went directly to Bill Bader first thing Friday morning before the race started and asked him if I could run both classes. There was a meeting with Bill, Pete and I think Jeff Kauffman and a decision was made that I could run both classes (as long as I paid both entry fees) and one class didn't hold up or interfere with the other.

Sorry to Badbird69, I didn't mean to get you upset. I asked the rules BEFORE the race and followed them as instructed. I just wanted to race as much as possible.

All that said, I thank KRE and Butler for paying all these years for the classes. Unfortunately I missed this year but I plan to be there in 2014 and I'll try to run both classes again if the rules allow.

I'll see all you ECM guys at the YB Nationals on the 1000ft downhill Cecil County track....

[Scott Roberts]

I see no problem the way it was done by you then Scott! Why would anyone care if someone chose to run multiple races and hot lap their car? What's the big deal?

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by Scott Roberts

I see no problem the way it was done by you then Scott! Why would anyone care if someone chose to run multiple races and hot lap their car? What's the big deal?

Because others can not...

[60man]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

Because others can not...

X2...

[Badbird69]

Thanks for clearing that up Scott. I didn't know that was allowed, and quite frankly, still disagree with it. We were dumfounded as neither of us recalled seeing it done before. In years past those who didn't make the cut for the Frantic 4, fell back into the Quick 16. That was expected. We just never saw a Frantic 4 Participant run both races. Seems like a bad prededent to me, as allowing your cars in, bumped two other guys out. They should have qualified, but are now "alternates".

I believe that as the Frantic 4 are the elite cars of the field, just making the cut should include some exclusivity. But I don't make the rules and it would be difficult to roll that back now. Carry on.

DF

[estep455]

so you can run frantic 4 and q16 but you cant run q16 and go back to sp if you lose 1st round in q16 which is run before sp? wow.

[estep455]

Originally Posted by SDPROMO

We follow standard NHRA practice on the operation of the race, including, but not limited to, auto-start settings, how qualified cars are laddered, who gets the bye-run in the event the other car doesn't answer the class call, what constitutes a run, etc. I don't know of any event that provides this information. The field was set after the 3rd qualifying round; when race control learned one of the qualified cars would not be able to compete, the call was made for the first alternate. An alternate is not required to race, this is also NHRA policy. In the event the first alternate refuses, the second would have the opportunity. The moment the qualified car announced he was broken, he earned the 1st round money; you do not have to stage the car under its own power to loss the round...you have stage the car to be considered the winner.
I have not seen the payout sheets from customer service, we will not be meeting with the track until this Wednesday, so I don't know who claimed their money and who did not. Our policy is to send out all unclaimed purse money to those who have earned it, providing we have the participant's name and address on the tech card. If the driver that broke didn't claim his round money, it will be sent; we have never kept any purse money that went unclaimed unless we absolutely could not identify and locate the winner by his tech card, and any accusation's that have been made to the contrary are untrue.
Any questions regarding race operations need to be taken to the race director in the tower, and a complete explanation will be provided.

no accusations have been made about the money questions were asked as to where its at thats all. now after reading this since sikgoat broke but didnt push the car to the line to stage it then its still floating in the air somewhere? just trying to clarify.