#1  
Old 05-18-2022, 08:48 PM
R 70 Judge's Avatar
R 70 Judge R 70 Judge is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,457
Default My Holley Terminator X Sequential EFI build

Ive decided to switch my 1970 TA over to a Holley Terminator X sequential EFI along with a Holley coil near plug (CNP) LS style ignition set-up. My car currently has a ProSystems 4500 Dominator on a Victor and MSD 6 ignition. Per the calculators it makes somewhere between 660hp-720hp on race gas. I plan to switch to E85 shortly after the EFI goes on. The 100 lb injectors should give me some room to grow (Vortech YSI or Turbos later). I figured Id share my build along with the part #s for anyone that wants to duplicate it. Ill answer any questions to the best of my ability.

After a long discussion with the Holley Representative he was able to design a custom system for me with the features I wanted excluding any extra wiring I didnt need. I skipped the handheld tuner for now as I plan to use my laptop for tuning. I am still undecided of which throttle body to use.

Intake manifold:
KRE Northwind, port matched and light plenum work. Conversion by Funkhouser Race Cars using Wilson Manifolds fuel rails, bungs, and stanchions https://www.wilsonmanifolds.com/prod...c8b87930&_ss=r

ECU/Coils/Injectors/Distributor:
TERMINATOR X ECU Part # 554-152
UNIVERSAL MPFI W/ COP MAIN HARNESS Part # 558-117
J1 A/B I/O CONNECTOR HP & DOM Part # 558-400
WBO2 SENSOR, SNIPER TBI Part # 554-155
TERMINATOR X WIDEBAND ADAPTER HARNESS Part # 558-463
LS INJECTOR HARNESS Part # 558-201
KIT- FUEL INJECTOR 100 PPH, 8 PK, FM Part # 522-108XFM
KIT, 8 CYLINDER SMART COIL KIT Part # 556-127
Dist., Dual Sync, Pontiac, Black Part # 565-207BK
Holley EFI Billet Blank Cap For Dual Syn Part # 566-103
USB/CAN HARNESS, SNIPER TBI Part # 558-443

Fuel system:
TanksInc 20.5 gallon tank
450 lph Walbro Hellcat fuel pump
I have not picked a fuel regulator yet

I will update the progress with pictures over the next few weeks

Current picture:


__________________
James
1970 Trans Am

Spotts Built 484" IA2, HIghports
  #2  
Old 05-18-2022, 09:39 PM
JLMounce JLMounce is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Greeley, Colorado
Posts: 3,149
Send a message via AIM to JLMounce
Default

Cool project! I’ll definitely follow this one.

__________________
-Jason
1969 Pontiac Firebird
  #3  
Old 05-18-2022, 10:39 PM
Scott65's Avatar
Scott65 Scott65 is online now
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,803
Default

Cool project! The Accufab dominator throttle body works well. The adjustment screws for the throttle blade adjustment can have clearance issues though. I used a phenolic 1" spacer, which the manifold really can make good use of anyway, and it was easy to clearance the spots that needed it. It uses GM style tps, and stepper IAC valve. Hopefully others will share some recommendations for you as well. Remember they are generally lower profile, (than the dominator carbs) which helps with hood clearance and may allow a spacer where one wouldn't fit before.

__________________
'65 Tempest 467 3650# 11.30@120.31
The Following User Says Thank You to Scott65 For This Useful Post:
  #4  
Old 05-23-2022, 01:21 PM
R 70 Judge's Avatar
R 70 Judge R 70 Judge is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,457
Default

Looks like everything but the coil near plug coils has shipped. Once the injectors arrive the manifold conversion will start.

Are there any advantages to going with a fabricated/cast 4500 elbow and 105mm forward facing throttle body over the traditional 4500 carburetor flange mount throttle body? I would imagine the elbow would effectively increase the plenum volume/area but I’m all for being educated on the subject.

Hood clearance is a definite issue. I had to modify (bend) the current throttle bracket because it hit the hood when closed. I am gaining 1.2” of clearance going from the Victor to the Northwind though.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	6C1DFBAF-3E85-45E6-813F-6E4A84BE2105.jpg
Views:	84
Size:	96.2 KB
ID:	591387   Click image for larger version

Name:	D27CAFA6-1E66-41E5-93B7-6D6DD040CCC8.jpeg
Views:	82
Size:	120.5 KB
ID:	591388   Click image for larger version

Name:	F6210B99-62FD-4D43-8731-3AEB5BB8445F.jpg
Views:	35
Size:	35.0 KB
ID:	591389  

__________________
James
1970 Trans Am

Spotts Built 484" IA2, HIghports
  #5  
Old 05-23-2022, 01:37 PM
JLMounce JLMounce is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Greeley, Colorado
Posts: 3,149
Send a message via AIM to JLMounce
Default

The forward facing throttle body setup does increase plenum volume. There can be issues with them related to cylinder filling however. The 90+ degree bend right before the flange can effect cylinder filling in 7 and 8. Since this is a sequential setup, you should be able to tune for any increase/decrease on a cylinder by cylinder basis however. That will become more of an issue after the YSi is installed.

The standard throttle body style that allows use of a traditional air cleaner will tend to direct airflow more evenly through the throttle body and into the runners. The drawback of course is using underhood air and you may run into air cleaner clearance issues relating to the shallow throttle body and its throttle linkage.

If you weren't already committed to the Northwind intake, I'd actually look into one of Luhn Performance's modified offenhouser 360 intakes. They add injector bungs and base plates to run the holley low, mid or ram bathtub style intake. That would give you the forward throttle body with additional plenum volume while also helping out the cylinder filling issues.

__________________
-Jason
1969 Pontiac Firebird
The Following User Says Thank You to JLMounce For This Useful Post:
  #6  
Old 05-23-2022, 05:26 PM
FrankieT/A's Avatar
FrankieT/A FrankieT/A is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 2,526
Default

I'm in the middle of a MPFI conversion on one of my cars right now. Not a Pontiac but I will follow this for a future Pontiac conversion.

__________________
1978 Black & Gold T/A [complete 70 Ram Air III (carb to pan) PQ and 12 bolt], fully loaded, deluxe, WS6, T-Top car - 1972 Formula 455HO Ram Air numbers matching Julep Green - 1971 T/A 455, 320 CFM Eheads, RP cam, Doug's headers, Fuel injection, TKX 5 Spd. 12 Bolt 3.73, 4 wheel disc. All A/C cars
  #7  
Old 06-09-2022, 09:48 PM
R 70 Judge's Avatar
R 70 Judge R 70 Judge is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,457
Default

Small update: Holley sent the wrong main harness. They were great about it and sent out the correct one super fast.

All of the Holley parts have arrived minus the 8 CYLINDER SMART COIL KIT Part # 556-127 which is apparently on back order. I emailed Holley to ask is I could change it the the 8 CYLINDER BIG WIRE SMART COIL KIT Part # 556-128. I figure a little extra voltage potential can’t hurt, plus they are in stock. I’m waiting to hear back.

The 4500 KRE Northwind and 100lb matched injectors have been dropped off for the EFI conversion. He’s busy so it may take a few weeks.

I’m still torn on what to do for a throttle body. A 2” accufab and 1” spacer is nearly as tall as the Dominator. It will eventually get force induction and a forward facing throttle body seems easier to package. The good blow thru carb hats are pretty damn tall. Idk. Maybe I’m over thinking it

__________________
James
1970 Trans Am

Spotts Built 484" IA2, HIghports
  #8  
Old 06-09-2022, 09:56 PM
R 70 Judge's Avatar
R 70 Judge R 70 Judge is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,457
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLMounce View Post
The forward facing throttle body setup does increase plenum volume. There can be issues with them related to cylinder filling however. The 90+ degree bend right before the flange can effect cylinder filling in 7 and 8. Since this is a sequential setup, you should be able to tune for any increase/decrease on a cylinder by cylinder basis however. That will become more of an issue after the YSi is installed.

The standard throttle body style that allows use of a traditional air cleaner will tend to direct airflow more evenly through the throttle body and into the runners. The drawback of course is using underhood air and you may run into air cleaner clearance issues relating to the shallow throttle body and its throttle linkage.

If you weren't already committed to the Northwind intake, I'd actually look into one of Luhn Performance's modified offenhouser 360 intakes. They add injector bungs and base plates to run the holley low, mid or ram bathtub style intake. That would give you the forward throttle body with additional plenum volume while also helping out the cylinder filling issues.
I talked to Luhn about their intake. He said it would make a great street intake but would be out of stream at 6500 rpm. They were asking around $1800 for it which wasnt terribly priced considering what you get.

__________________
James
1970 Trans Am

Spotts Built 484" IA2, HIghports
  #9  
Old 06-24-2022, 12:13 PM
HWYSTR455's Avatar
HWYSTR455 HWYSTR455 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Manassas, VA
Posts: 13,738
Default

I may be wrong, but I think the plenum volume stays the same regardless of what's over the actual intake plenum, IE, an intake elbow. It's just air. And if you boost it, it becomes less of an issue (if there is one).

I am dyslexic though!

There are low profile elbows too, I used an Edelbrock one due to clearance issues.

Some low profile elbows limit flow though, would have to take that into consideration. With boost, again, think it becomes less of an issue. (or no issue at all, CFM still being the factor).

You could always have a custom elbow made, but there is cost associated with that, of course.

I was originally doing a blow-thru SEFI setup on my bird, but gave up, since there were no 'good' bracket setups at that time. (Early-2000s). I was using the 1/2 height body bushings, so packaging was my concern (which was overcome).

.

__________________
.

1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
1971 Trans Am 461, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car
1972 442 W-30 Tribute (495 stroker, Bernard SpeedMaster aluminum heads)
442 Build Thread:
http://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/...e-project.html
Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be
The Following User Says Thank You to HWYSTR455 For This Useful Post:
  #10  
Old 06-29-2022, 02:28 PM
R 70 Judge's Avatar
R 70 Judge R 70 Judge is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,457
Default

Small parts list update:

After much research, the lowest profile 4500 elbow I could find is made by Steve Morris Racing. It measures just a hair over 5” at its highest point. I also appreciated that they took the time to send me a picture of the measurement. I’m struggling with hood/shaker clearance issues so I’m hoping that this fits with the addition of going from a Victor to a Northwind (1.2” shorter). I’ve done calculations of the overall height but I won’t know for sure until the parts are in my hand. It is going to be tight.

I decided to go with a Wilson Manifolds 105mm throttle body. There were many options available. Wilson’s makes quality components. Plus it will match the Wilson’s fuel rails… aesthetics are important right? lol

We should have some EFI conversion updates/pictures soon

Elbow and throttle body:

Steve Morris Racing 4500 billet elbow: Part #1464 with 105mm Wilson’s bolt pattern
Wilson Manifold’s 105mm dual-seal billet throttle body: Part #471105D with IAC provision
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	9D9F3CAE-782C-4D40-AE1F-A18B81E986C6.jpg
Views:	43
Size:	46.1 KB
ID:	593438  

__________________
James
1970 Trans Am

Spotts Built 484" IA2, HIghports
The Following User Says Thank You to R 70 Judge For This Useful Post:
  #11  
Old 06-29-2022, 04:30 PM
Scott65's Avatar
Scott65 Scott65 is online now
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,803
Default

Good stuff.

__________________
'65 Tempest 467 3650# 11.30@120.31
  #12  
Old 06-29-2022, 04:46 PM
JLMounce JLMounce is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Greeley, Colorado
Posts: 3,149
Send a message via AIM to JLMounce
Default

How much taller is the northwind over the stock intake?

__________________
-Jason
1969 Pontiac Firebird
  #13  
Old 06-30-2022, 09:25 PM
R 70 Judge's Avatar
R 70 Judge R 70 Judge is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,457
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLMounce View Post
How much taller is the northwind over the stock intake?
Here are some various intake heights I saved from a post by Skip Fix:

Front/rear
SR 72 HO intake 5" / 7"
Performer 5 5/16" / 6 3/4
Holley SD 5 3/8" / 7 3/16"
Tomahawk 5 5/8" / 7" Carb pad 6 / 6 9/16
Torker I 5 7/8" / 7"
Torker II 5 7/8" / 7 1/16" Carb pad 6 1/4 / 6 3/4
RPM 6 9/16" / 7 13/16"
Northwind 7 5/16 / 7 3/8 Carb pad 7 3/16 / 7 3/16
Victor 8 9/16" / 8 9/16" Carb pad 8 1/2 / 8 1/2
M/T crossram Driver side 7 7/16" / 9 1/16"
M/t crossram Passenger 7 1/4" / 8 3/16"
Warrior Tunnel ram 10" / 10 3/4"
SD Bathtub reproduction 7 7/16 / 9 3/8

Im using carb pad height to calculate my height. My Steve Morris elbow will be here this weekend. Ill take off my dominator and stick it on top of my Victor and see where Im at. I have a feeling it will definitely hit the shaker with the Victor.

__________________
James
1970 Trans Am

Spotts Built 484" IA2, HIghports
  #14  
Old 08-01-2022, 07:42 PM
R 70 Judge's Avatar
R 70 Judge R 70 Judge is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,457
Default

Small update. Chips are flying!

KRE Northwind with CNC plenum touch up
Steve Morris 4500 billet elbow
Wilson Manifolds 105mm Throttle body
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	9F69FBEF-EE79-419D-9A9C-1C0E9741D2EC.jpg
Views:	38
Size:	70.4 KB
ID:	595559   Click image for larger version

Name:	23B2CAAA-15AF-4127-8F8B-A4677E92A765.jpg
Views:	35
Size:	72.5 KB
ID:	595560   Click image for larger version

Name:	70661AFE-A6E3-492E-88A1-03457CB3CDB9.jpg
Views:	40
Size:	67.7 KB
ID:	595561   Click image for larger version

Name:	07C5CE11-3D5C-4CCF-9CC6-313A2519D502.jpg
Views:	42
Size:	75.0 KB
ID:	595562   Click image for larger version

Name:	1C39142E-0F48-4890-A7A5-3AC5C8407CE5.jpg
Views:	34
Size:	64.9 KB
ID:	595563  


__________________
James
1970 Trans Am

Spotts Built 484" IA2, HIghports
  #15  
Old 08-01-2022, 08:07 PM
R 70 Judge's Avatar
R 70 Judge R 70 Judge is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,457
Default

I forgot to update before. I tried the Steve Morris elbow on the Victor and it hit the front of my shaker scoop. I think we may be good to go with the change to the Northwind since it’s 1.2” shorter.

Edit: damn pictures are turned all kinds of wrong
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	B30354A6-B84D-4F32-8E48-B7D094C5343D.jpg
Views:	29
Size:	58.4 KB
ID:	595568   Click image for larger version

Name:	16AF5D31-9755-43C2-95B9-3C7CCF1A384B.jpg
Views:	31
Size:	64.5 KB
ID:	595569   Click image for larger version

Name:	83D0A23A-C7A8-40F3-BE60-71E2EACD60EE.jpg
Views:	39
Size:	69.1 KB
ID:	595570   Click image for larger version

Name:	70377F5D-204A-4C19-A56F-C03E1EA5725C.jpg
Views:	29
Size:	25.9 KB
ID:	595571  

__________________
James
1970 Trans Am

Spotts Built 484" IA2, HIghports
  #16  
Old 08-02-2022, 09:50 AM
Scott65's Avatar
Scott65 Scott65 is online now
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,803
Default

Killer looking stuff. Makes me wanna swap to an elbow arrangement. Keep up the updates.

__________________
'65 Tempest 467 3650# 11.30@120.31
  #17  
Old 09-22-2022, 03:01 PM
R 70 Judge's Avatar
R 70 Judge R 70 Judge is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,457
Default

Small update... I received an email from Holley this morning and the big wire smart coil kit part # 556-128 was finally back in stock, so they pulled one and are in the process of shipping it out to me. This is the last piece I needed to complete the EFI conversion.

Great timing as my spot has finally come up in the chassis shop and he TA will be heading there in the next two weeks for a sh*t ton of updates including the EFI conversion.

__________________
James
1970 Trans Am

Spotts Built 484" IA2, HIghports
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:17 PM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017