[goatman65]

I have been on the website. I like reading and hearing street racing stories. My dad and other family members were big into street racing back in the 60s-70s and i've heard many stories from them over the years. Mostly the same stories over and over and over,lol.
The was a resturant about 30 miles from here on rt.40 that i was told was 'the' place to race. My dad said that guys would bring cars in on trailers from out of state.

The car to beat was a Ford pick-up owned by a couple brothers. My dad said that they would load coal into the bed to help with traction. And since this place was pretty much away from any towns there was no need to worry about cops.

[goatman65]

This was a 'hot-spot' for racing in the 60s-70s. It is about 2 miles from here. It was built around 1953,just after the highway opened up. The old highway is on the hill behind it. My dad was go friends with the owner and spent a lot of time hanging out there,which would piss off my mom,but she rarely said anything to him about it.

I was allowed to tag a long so i also spent a lot of time here either being 'baby-sat' by the waitresses and drinking cherry cokes or playing with stuff in the owners garage while he and my dad worked on cars. The owner was/is a local ledgend of sorts for gear heads. He was into drag racing in the 60s and ran a Fiat altered in the lows 10s at the strip. He also had the fastest street car,a 36 Ford coupe powered by a 327 built just for street racing. He still has the 36. In the 70s he sold the Fiat and went dirt track racing with 67-8 Camaros then switched to 64-5 Chevelles.

Anyway, Guys would fill this parking lot waiting for 11:00 pm when the business would close and race till 3 or 4 am. Cars that i either remember or have heard about, a 67 Impala with a very healthy 427. 64 GTO with 421 tripower, 65 GTO 'real' Bobcat, 49 Chevy with a dual-quad 409. A couple more GTOs, Roadrunners.

Running out of time so i'll stop here. The second pic is from the starting line looking down to the end of the 1/4. Guys would measure off a 1/4 and paint a line across the road. More later if no-one objects.

[Iron Texan]

I was able to get in contact with the gentleman on the Chevelle Tech forum who's friend owned Mr Mair's Chevelle. I was told that when his friend aquired the Chevelle the 505 had already been removed and it was sold as a roller. His friend wound up putting a modified 454 in it and ran 11.60's and roamed the streets with open dumps, 4.88 gears and 30 inch tall slicks.

The gentleman I spoke with was very helpful with my questions and was able to send me a couple of old pics of the car from when his friend owned it. I know the pic is small and hard to see (click on it and it gets a little bigger...) but I figured the car deserved a place in this thread.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by Iron Texan

I was able to get in contact with the gentleman on the Chevelle Tech forum who's friend owned Mr Mair's Chevelle. I was told that when his friend aquired the Chevelle the 505 had already been removed and it was sold as a roller. His friend wound up putting a modified 454 in it and ran 11.60's and roamed the streets with open dumps, 4.88 gears and 30 inch tall slicks.

The gentleman I spoke with was very helpful with my questions and was able to send me a couple of old pics of the car from when his friend owned it. I know the pic is small and hard to see (click on it and it gets a little bigger...) but I figured the car deserved a place in this thread.

Attachment 315587

I love how people from other forums have joined in a friendly way to confirm the history of Detroit street racing. This is REAL car guy stuff. Not this camp vs that camp. Real history.

Steve's engine from the Chevelle was taken out and used in an even lighter Camaro. The engine that Steve's dad, the late Alex Mair GM VP, had built for them came from engineering.

Another friend of mine, Lorn Budzinski, told me that the Camaro was orginally Mike Magaries. So I'm not sure where the body came from but the Camaro was at the Mair home for years.

Steve lives in Florida. According to a mutual friend of mine and Steve's, Gary Cochan who owns Beau Jack's restaurant in Bloomfield, Steve is building engines for off shore boats.

This artilce below will help you also understand how the factory stuff got on the streets. Every one was just having a great time trying the "What If's" on the streets and highways around Detroit.

The Mair's lived in Bloomfield Township, just off Telegraph and Lone Pine. (approx. 17 Mile Rd) All they had to do was take Lone Pine east 2- 3 miles and they were on Woodward Ave. 2 Miles south of Ted's Drive in and 2 miles above down town Birmingham at Maple Rd (15 Mile Rd). On Thursday nights they were only 5 minutes from where the High End club would meet. Be it Howard Johnson,s at 10 Mile and Northwest Hwy, Southfield Civic Cener/ Police, Lawrence Tech or the Nugget on 12 Mile Rd at I-696 and Orchard Lake Rd.

Most of these 10 second cars were owned by guys on the northwestern suburbs of Detroit.

Here is an article from Auto Week about Alex Mair:

By: Adam Rubenfire, Automotive News on 5/29/2012

Alex Mair, retired head of GM technical staff, Pontiac and GMC, dies
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alex Mair, former group executive in charge of General Motors' technical staffs and general manager of the automaker's Pontiac and GMC divisions, died Sunday in Orange City, Fla. He was 91.


Mair was named group executive of GM's technical staffs in November 1978 and remained in that position until he retired in 1986.


He became general manager of GMC in 1972 and general manager of Pontiac in 1975.


Mair, a native of Flint, Mich., had enrolled at the General Motors Institute under sponsorship from Chevrolet in October 1939.


After graduation, he became a detailer for Chevrolet in 1943 and later served in various executive and engineering positions.


Last year, in an interview with Automotive News reporter Jesse Snyder, Mair recalled a race between him and former Chevrolet General Manager Pete Estes.


Estes had asked his engineers to drag race two experimental Chevy Chevelles with him. Mair, then Chevrolet's truck boss, was the only engineer that did not decline the invitation.


Mair said he beat Estes twice; once in an initial race and again after switching cars with the executive. He credited the race for his promotion to chief engineer of passenger cars for Chevrolet in 1965.


The job allowed Mair to supervise the design of the 1967 Chevrolet Camaro.


His son, Steve Mair, said he received his driver's license the year Alex Mair became director of engineering at Chevrolet, 1966, which allowed him the pleasure of test driving company cars with his father.


Steve Mair said he remembers his father coming home often and telling his family that he couldn't believe he was getting paid for "all the fun he was having" at work.


Steve Mair said his father was an outspoken critic of the quality of GM's cars, insisting that the company would fail if it didn't improve reliability and durability.


"He was very forward-looking on the product as far as making things people wanted and making good quality parts," Steve Mair said. "He was a great believer that quality reduces your costs, and he was right."


In 1972, Mair told Automotive News that assembly line workers shouldn't be blamed for poor vehicle quality.


Instead of putting the blame on assembly line workers, Mair said engineers and executives must be held accountable for improving the manufacturing process.


"In the first place, 95 percent of the workers want to build up the company name for quality," Mair said. "And if you examine quality every day, you find that the root of poor quality is more often a faulty process than careless workmen and women."




Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/2012...#ixzz2MxWfSt9f
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Alex Mair was once head of GM's technical staff and led Pontiac and GMC during his career

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

There was a visitor from another brand forum who made a coment that Pro stockers could only run in the mid 10's during this era of 1971 - 1974. How could the Silver Bullet or Black bird run faster then the pros?

So,I found a great website with a list of record holders just from Detroit.

If you had read this entire post along with the old magazines I posted. You will recognize the names from Detroit street racing. Mike Fons, George Delorean, Andy Mannarino ,Wayne Gapp-Jack Rousch, Dick Aarons, Dick Maskin and Dave Kanners for a start.

Oh, yes the resently mentioned on our forum, Huston Martin "LITTLE KIM" and now his son Harold Martin runs pro. We had Harold...OMG....maybe 15 years ago display his Pro- Stock Firebird at one of our yearly Automotive Replacement Parts warehouse shows at Valdimire's in Farmington.

It did not take much to hang mufflers on these cars before that got lettered up for the street. Or "Test" the engines on another car before puting it into the race car.

Do you think it was a little tough on the streets of Detroit. You raced the pros, the factory exec's and their off spring. What a ride..LOL

Here is a great list of Detroit area racers and their records at the strip from 1972;

http://www.draglist.com/draglist/cat...ammers&page=45

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by SuddenDeath

Eric,

Here is the second appearance of the car in Super Stock and Drag Illustrated really giving details on how they built the car. The engine really was a mild setup considering how radical they could have gone. Likely, with the light weight of the car, it was thought to be plenty An amazing amount of fabrication went into creating it though. The more I've worked on and under this car, the more I find they did to create it.

I've spoken to the author of this article, Michael Uno. He said he was sent up to the Gapp and Roush shop to do a story on them and took quite a bit of film on this car while there. Mr. Uno is now a professor of cinema at USC!

Great artilce. This is the "Smaller enigine" before Joe went with the 505 and twin turbos. This article goes along with the 1976 article by Brock Yates, "Back The Streets Mother".

Joe got sick of Jim Wangers beating him. The last straw was when Fred Foreman driving Jim Wangers red Monza beat him. Joe said to Wangers, What is it going to take to beat you Wangers? Fred said they never raced Joe after the 505 with the turbo's went in the Mustang II.

Freddie told me a great story about Joe when he raced another High End guy. Forgot the name. After Joe beat him. The other guy said to Joe, I thought you said the Bottles where for baby's? Joe respondes by putting his thiumb in his mouth and saying goog goog... Even Joe used NOS.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by Iron Texan

I was able to get in contact with the gentleman on the Chevelle Tech forum who's friend owned Mr Mair's Chevelle. I was told that when his friend aquired the Chevelle the 505 had already been removed and it was sold as a roller. His friend wound up putting a modified 454 in it and ran 11.60's and roamed the streets with open dumps, 4.88 gears and 30 inch tall slicks.

The gentleman I spoke with was very helpful with my questions and was able to send me a couple of old pics of the car from when his friend owned it. I know the pic is small and hard to see (click on it and it gets a little bigger...) but I figured the car deserved a place in this thread.

Attachment 315587

Great going getting a picture of Steve's old 1970 Chevelle. To the casual observer the car looks stock. But in 1970 the SS Chevelles had 14" Magnum style 5 spoke wheels with chrome trim rings. Look closely at Steve's car. Those are the 15" 1971-72 Chevelle SS wheels. I beleive, and don't quote me on this, Steve had the rear wheels widened 1 - 2 inchs to put a wider tire, slick, on the car. But like most Detroit cars they looked stock.

[Greg Reid]

I tried to enlarge the photo of the Chevelle without too much degradation. You are right Doc, it has the later Chevelle wheels.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

I just attended the 2013 Detroit Autorama. Low and behold there was Huston Martin's 1967 Camaro "Little Kim". Huston was an old time racer. Both at Detroit Dragway and on the street.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Great article just released in High Performance Pontiac's June 2013 issue. The article is called "Realizing Potential" by Rocky Rotella. The article is about Gregg Peterson a past PMD engineer and his 1974 455 SD Trans Am. (see thumb nails. It will take two replys)

What is the beauty about the article is that you will now see how the Jim Wangers Black Birds "What If" engine was producing on the dyno before Tom Nell tried several diferent cams.

Remember too, Frankie Ulbrick throw a rod through the engineering block and later had George Delorean build a new engine for the Black Bird. Basicly, Gregg's '74 T/A benefited from the experimentation on the Black Birds bigger engine. George built Gregg a 433 cid engine with a 421 crank, General Kinetic cams and same rods as the Black Bird. The Black Bird was a 444 CID engine with a 428 crank.

Both the Black Bird and the PMD dyno engine had the issues. Both throw a Carillo rod. OR was it the same engine? Hummmm. Nah! here is what an email Gregg just sent me:

Thanks, Eric. This is quite a coincidence; I just opened the first page of the “Building 455 Pontiacs” article and saw the rods. I still have a bent Carillo rod (last rod in the picture – mine is identical) from the SD dyno testing that I rescued from the scrap pile; I’ll send you a picture of it. J



Best Regards,

Gregg



Gregory E. Peterson

Lotus Engineering, Inc., 35843 Mound Rd., Sterling Heights, MI 48310

Gregg tells me he is selling the Trans Am. He is shipping it to Florida to be sold at RM's Auction of the America's

http://www.auctionsamerica.com/event...&category=Cars

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Part two of Gregg Peterson's 1974 Trans Am and PMD 455 High compression round port engine development.

I also added some pictures of the Black Bird before I made some changes back to the way the car was in the "Popular Hot Rodding" 1971 article. I added a lot of weight to the car by doing this. But you can see the the old George Delorean "Leader Automotive Inc" valve covers, Moroso ram air pan, lift off fiberglass hood (on the car's roof) and the great equalizer...NOS brackets and line are still in the trunk.

[Keith Seymore]

I love the fact that he rescued a bent/broken rod from the trash as a souvenir; I also have a "broken parts display" here at work...



K

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

I love the fact that he rescued a bent/broken rod from the trash as a souvenir; I also have a "broken parts display" here at work...



K

What is wrong with you guys?

This is what we used to haul out of the Buick, Chevrolet, Turnsted, AC and Fisher Body Plants in Flint! Of course Buick City and all of those plants along Dort Hwy and Davison Rd are gone since they where part of the "Old" GM.

There would occasionally be some one from the plant who would follow our truck back to the yard and ask if it was OK if he took something he hid in the load. We only paid penny's on the pound. The person would pull out a set of heads, intake , carb. We never knew what we'd find under the scrap. A car, a run of hoods or doors.

We called it scarp! Processed it and shipped it out. LOL

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

The Royal Pontiac Club posted some old pictures from their yearly summer drag racing series.
The Black Bird and I are pictured attending a couple of their 2005 and 2006 events.

Thanks for more pictures!

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

I tried to enlarge the photo of the Chevelle without too much degradation. You are right Doc, it has the later Chevelle wheels.

Greg,
Now you have to come up with Steve Mair and Alex's two other Camaro's that came after the Chevelle. Both are second generation Camaro's. One Silver with the all aluminum 505, probably from the '70 Chevelle, and the yellow one also with an all aluminum 505 but for all out street racing.

A friend of mine remembers seeing the two Camaro's and a Corvette he calls the New York Worlds Fair Corvette parked in Alex's 3 car garage a number of years ago when he and his dad visited the Mair's. Oddly enough my friend ended up buying a house across the street Alex's old home in Bloomfield Twp.

The engines came from Chevrolet racing which was one of Alex Mair's positions. I beleive Alex was head of the tech center, F-body program and General Manager of PMD and onto VP of General Motors.

They could all have gone to Florida where the family moved to.

[sdbob]

A freind from my area worked in the Pontiac dyno room and gave me the results(about 6 pages worth) from testing the initial SD-455. The only thing he asked was not to show them to anyone until he had left.The one sheet said 'chevy eater' on it.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by sdbob

A freind from my area worked in the Pontiac dyno room and gave me the results(about 6 pages worth) from testing the initial SD-455. The only thing he asked was not to show them to anyone until he had left.The one sheet said 'chevy eater' on it.

And that was the whole basis of the "Black Bird". PMD engine engineering dept's revenge on the street. To show what could have been. With the support of Russ Gee and Tom Nell trying different combinations and cams in the Black Bird.

As I said in the very beginning of the forum. Every one knew that the top guys had some sort of factory support. But, they kept their mouths shut onto the extent.

It was only Jimmy Addison who would open his mouth and tell every one about his factory support.

But things should be clearer about how things were on the streets of Detroit. You now have more insite about the fast cars and who owned them, or prepaired them.

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

Greg,
Now you have to come up with Steve Mair and Alex's two other Camaro's that came after the Chevelle.

Heh...well, I just came up with a thread that had a guy who knew them in it. Maybe the same guy that provided that photo has photos of the Camaros?

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Well, the weather hasn't completely warmed up here in Michigan. I have changed the fluids in the Black Bird and GTO. I took the GTO out for a ride last weekend. I am hoping to get the Black Bird on the road more frequently this year. I'll bring it out for our Saturday morning gatherings, 8am - 10 am at Pasteiner's Auto Zone Bookstore in Birmingham, Woodward just north of 14 Mile Rd.
I will have it at Dugan's Irish Pub Tuesday Dream Cruise week and again either in down town Birmingham or at Pasteiner's Auto Zone Book store on Woodward just north of 14 Mile Rd on Dream Cruise Saturday.
Pictures to come
I would like to thank Tom Tate for sending me up dates on his progress restoring Joe's Mustang II.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

OMG...I just read my latest issue of "Muscle Car Review", June 2013.

This article exemplifies why you can’t trust what you read. The article doesn’t even have an author just MCR.

Anyways the article is full of guesses. The author surmises that there most have been two Prototype Judges. In his investigation and reading about an automatic and a 4speed test. It took a real sleuth to figure this out.

Hello…How about all of the articles and advertisements showing a Hide-A-Way head light car and a fixed head light car. How about, one car having a white interior the other a black, one with a rear power antenna and the other without? Humm!

Any one who has read this forum knows about Jim Wanger’s Limelight Green Ram Air IV4 Speed press car that got pressed into service as a Judge. Painted Carousel Red, a “high” rear spoiler, white strip, then a production multi color Judge stripe and badging, and many engine swaps throughout the year.

The un named author could have served “Muscle Car Reviews” reading audience by making a quick phone call to Jim Wangers.

Included the Muscle Car Review article for your reading pleaser along with some black and white proof slides taken at Lapeer Dragway on test day.

More pictures on next post!