#1  
Old 10-01-2022, 10:59 AM
Stan Weiss's Avatar
Stan Weiss Stan Weiss is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,000
Default Cam Information

Ken Croice / H-O Enterprises

Thank you so very much for sharing these Cam Dr printouts with me. There is a lot to go through and figure out exactly what this all is.

I have managed to get together the information for one cam.

; Crane 969681 Blue Print 041
; HC0235 01-17-90 Test # 35
; Rocker Ratio - 1.5:1 Intake - 1.5:1 Exhaust
;
; C1_File_-_Header_Information From Papers
; PVN,ICL,ECL_=_xxx,113.8,113.8
; Overlap_=_86.1
; Intake_Open_=_31.9____Close_=_98.9____Duration_=_3 10.7
; Intake_Cam_Lift_=_.31374____Valve_Lift_=_.47061___ _Area_=_25.85
; Exhaust_Open_=_83.6____Close_=_54.2____Duration_=_ 317.9
; Exhaust_Cam_Lift_=_.31319____Valve_Lift_=_.46978__ __Area_=_26.58
;
; From a Different Piece of Paper
; 0.050_Overlap_=_8.4
; Intake_0.050_Open_=_1.5____Close_=_50.2____Duratio n_=_231.6
; Exhaust_0.050_Open_=_52.8____Close_=_6.9____Durati on_=_239.7

I have entered the lobe lift information for this cam into my computer if anyone would like to see any other information.

I will as I have time add other HO cam information to this thread.

Stan

PS Let add the paper lists Checking Height = 0.004

This is what I get using the lobe lift data

CAM______Lift______Opens___Closes__Duration
_________________Deg_BTDC__Deg_ABDC_____________Ar ea____ICL
_________0.00100____43.45_|_122.20_|_345.65_|__26. 08_|_129.38
_________0.00200____38.67_|_108.57_|_327.24_|__26. 06_|_124.95
_________0.00400____31.84_|__98.92_|_310.76_|__26. 04_|_123.54
_________0.00600____27.77_|__90.14_|_297.90_|__26. 00_|_121.19
_________0.00800____24.79_|__82.63_|_287.42_|__25. 96_|_118.92
_________0.01000____22.53_|__77.20_|_279.73_|__25. 93_|_117.34
_________0.02000____14.78_|__65.40_|_260.18_|__25. 78_|_115.31
_________0.04000_____5.21_|__54.28_|_239.49_|__25. 46_|_114.53
_________0.05000_____1.45_|__50.18_|_231.64_|__25. 27_|_114.37
_________0.10000___-14.18_|__33.72_|_199.54_|__24.05_|_113.95
_________0.15000___-28.41_|__19.15_|_170.75_|__22.12_|_113.78
_________0.20000___-43.49_|___4.01_|_140.51_|__19.43_|_113.75
_________0.25000___-61.28_|_-13.92_|_104.80_|__15.29_|_113.68
_________0.30000___-89.31_|_-41.84_|__48.86_|___7.44_|_113.74

__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises
Offering Performance Software Since 1987
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm
David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV
Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php
Pontiac Pump Gas List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm
Using PMD Block and Heads List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm

Last edited by Stan Weiss; 10-01-2022 at 11:38 AM.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Stan Weiss For This Useful Post:
  #2  
Old 10-02-2022, 12:13 AM
Jay S's Avatar
Jay S Jay S is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Nebraska City, Nebraska
Posts: 1,672
Default

Wow. The ICL at .006” tappet is 121* according to the later measurements, 90 intake close at .006”. You would have to advance that a ton to pump much compression even with 10:1.
Thanks Ken and Stan.

  #3  
Old 10-02-2022, 08:26 AM
Stan Weiss's Avatar
Stan Weiss Stan Weiss is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,000
Default

As has been talked about here many times HO offered their own cams and each of these cams could vary based on which manufacture produced it.

; HC-03 Comp Cams
; HC0365 06-11-90 Test # 65
; Rocker Ratio - 1.5:1 Intake - 1.5:1 Exhaust
; Checking Height = 0.004
;
; C1_File_-_Header_Information From Papers
; PVN,ICL,ECL_=_xxx,113.7,113.7
; Overlap_=_81.3
; Intake_Open_=_37.6____Close_=_85.1____Duration_=_3 02.7
; Intake_Cam_Lift_=_.33335____Valve_Lift_=_.50002___ _Area_=_28.21
; Exhaust_Open_=_92.1____Close_=_43.8____Duration_=_ 315.8
; Exhaust_Cam_Lift_=_.33724____Valve_Lift_=_.50587__ __Area_=_29.8

CAM_______Lift______Opens___Closes__Duration
_________________Deg_BTDC__Deg_ABDC_____________Ar ea____ICL
_________0.00100____49.35_|_101.60_|_330.95_|__28. 47_|_116.13
_________0.00200____43.97_|__93.52_|_317.49_|__28. 46_|_114.77
_________0.00400____37.36_|__85.31_|_302.67_|__28. 44_|_113.97
_________0.00600____33.24_|__80.84_|_294.08_|__28. 42_|_113.80
_________0.01000____28.10_|__76.65_|_284.75_|__28. 37_|_114.27
_________0.02000____20.52_|__68.38_|_268.90_|__28. 23_|_113.93
_________0.04000____11.07_|__58.64_|_249.71_|__27. 91_|_113.78
_________0.05000_____7.33_|__54.91_|_242.24_|__27. 81_|_113.79
_________0.10000____-8.48_|__39.36_|_210.89_|__26.61_|_113.92
_________0.15000___-22.75_|__25.04_|_182.29_|__24.84_|_113.90
_________0.20000___-37.52_|__10.12_|_152.60_|__22.00_|_113.82
_________0.25000___-54.45_|__-6.83_|_118.72_|__18.35_|_113.81
_________0.30000___-76.87_|_-29.13_|__74.00_|__11.96_|_113.87

Stan

__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises
Offering Performance Software Since 1987
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm
David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV
Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php
Pontiac Pump Gas List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm
Using PMD Block and Heads List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm
  #4  
Old 10-03-2022, 02:48 PM
Stan Weiss's Avatar
Stan Weiss Stan Weiss is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,000
Default

There are a couple of printouts labeled Elgin. One a 909 and the other 778. That I can find both are still in the latest catalog.

Stan
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Pontiac_Elgin_Cams.jpg
Views:	101
Size:	96.1 KB
ID:	599889  

__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises
Offering Performance Software Since 1987
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm
David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV
Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php
Pontiac Pump Gas List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm
Using PMD Block and Heads List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm
The Following User Says Thank You to Stan Weiss For This Useful Post:
  #5  
Old 10-03-2022, 04:49 PM
KEN CROCIE KEN CROCIE is offline
Pontiac Performance Author
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Rancho Cucamonga Ca.
Posts: 1,522
Default

The current elgin 909 looks like aRA 3 on paper, but has reduced dwell over the nose, by a lot !
TV posted an image of the 2 cams ,side by side, a few years back.
I think the cam is produced by a Co .called Power Products

__________________
GOOD IDEAS ARE OFTEN FOUND ABANDONED IN THE DUST OF PROCRASTINATION
  #6  
Old 10-03-2022, 05:13 PM
KEN CROCIE KEN CROCIE is offline
Pontiac Performance Author
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Rancho Cucamonga Ca.
Posts: 1,522
Default

These 2 charts clearly ( I hope ) shows the difference of duration, between a checking clearence of .004" and .006".
Also note the difference of .004" and .006" of the 2 cams. The HC-03 cam has less duration change than the Elgin cam, indicating a faster lift rate on the more modern HC-03

__________________
GOOD IDEAS ARE OFTEN FOUND ABANDONED IN THE DUST OF PROCRASTINATION
  #7  
Old 10-04-2022, 02:50 PM
Stan Weiss's Avatar
Stan Weiss Stan Weiss is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,000
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KEN CROCIE View Post
The current elgin 909 looks like a RA 3 on paper, but has reduced dwell over the nose, by a lot !
TV posted an image of the 2 cams ,side by side, a few years back.
I think the cam is produced by a Co .called Power Products
Ken,
If I look at the 0.250" lifter raise duration for what you sent to me which is labeled the Elgin 909 / 744 I get 76.3 degrees

If I look at the 0.250" lifter raise duration for what I have for what is called the SP3 OLD version I get 72.5 degrees

If I look at the 0.250" lifter raise duration for what I have for what is called the SP3 NEW version I get 62.5 degrees

Stan

__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises
Offering Performance Software Since 1987
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm
David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV
Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php
Pontiac Pump Gas List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm
Using PMD Block and Heads List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm
  #8  
Old 10-05-2022, 09:38 AM
Jay S's Avatar
Jay S Jay S is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Nebraska City, Nebraska
Posts: 1,672
Default

That is a lot of loss in duration on the SPC-3 at .25” against that Elgin.. I have looked over the years for performance numbers for guys running the current SPC-3 version of the 744, always seemed like it was’t an improvement over the 068 version. It appears one reason it falls short is from that lack in duration at the upper lifts, not enough dwell over the nose.

So an original 744 actually smaller than that Elgin? 76.3 versus 72.5 overlap. Is there are cam DR file floating around for a OEM 744?

  #9  
Old 10-05-2022, 09:49 AM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 31,294
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KEN CROCIE View Post
The current elgin 909 looks like a RA 3 on paper, but has reduced dwell over the nose, by a lot !
TV posted an image of the 2 cams ,side by side, a few years back.
I think the cam is produced by a Co .called Power Products
Power Products, I was told years ago, was a Chinese company.
They did Intakes, Harmonic Balancers, Camshafts, and other Pontiac related
stuff. Ace was buying from them at one time. Flip of the coin type stuff for
getting what you hoped for but was cheaper to purchase.

A buyer and his mother raised H*ll with David B at least 7 years ago at Norwalk
in the Vendor area and gave the Mother and her Son his money back for a PP Balancer.
Good Business Practices.

This would be quite a few years ago. Maybe they have their act together better now.

Tom V.

__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.

Last edited by Tom Vaught; 10-05-2022 at 09:56 AM.
  #10  
Old 10-06-2022, 02:35 AM
77 TRASHCAN's Avatar
77 TRASHCAN 77 TRASHCAN is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 31May2013 Temporary home to the world's widest (that we know of) tornado. Lord, NO more Please...
Posts: 6,591
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay S View Post
Wow. The ICL at .006” tappet is 121* according to the later measurements, 90 intake close at .006”. You would have to advance that a ton to pump much compression even with 10:1.
Thanks Ken and Stan.
Jim Hand ans Cliff recommended advancing the 041 cam to an ICL of 109 degrees. Jay have you any experience with this cam?
I often wonder if 10:1 is enough compression, even with a 455? Of course. You being. "Mr. High Compression". It would have to be pump gas accessible for me. Just wondering???

__________________
1977 Black Trans Am 180 HP Auto, essentially base model T/A.
I'm the original owner, purchased May 7, 1977.

Shut it off
Shut it off
Buddy, I just shut your Prius down...
  #11  
Old 10-06-2022, 09:52 AM
Jay S's Avatar
Jay S Jay S is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Nebraska City, Nebraska
Posts: 1,672
Default

I have never used Crane’s blueprint 041 cam. Looks to me like Crane may have used their own profile design versus holding true to the original. My impression of it looking at the cam DR number’s is it has potential to run some more compression than other 041 grinds I have seen. Not a ton more, it also shouldn’t need as much cranking compression to run well compared to other 041 grinds like the SPC-8 copies.

  #12  
Old 10-06-2022, 10:00 AM
Cliff R's Avatar
Cliff R Cliff R is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Mount Vernon, Ohio 43050
Posts: 17,972
Default

I actually moved the Crower RAIV cam 4 times and raced the car after each movement.

It ran the best at 109ICL. It ran equally as well at 111ICL for MPH but off every so slightly in 60' times resulting in a couple hundreds worse ET.

Moving it to 113ICL KILLED it, idled rough, "lazy" in the normal driving range, "soft" on 60' times and down 2mph on top end.

Here's the real SHOCKER. Moving it to 107ICL KILLED it even worse. Desptie the fact that everyone regurgitates the "advance the cam for more low end torque" deal, it ran WORSE at 107ICL than at 109 and 111.

Superficially it seemed a little more responsive right off idle and very light throttle driving the car, but a complete TURD at the track with good traction.

Goes back to someone telling us a LONG time ago how sensitive these engines can be to the intake closing point.......FWIW.......

__________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran!
https://cliffshighperformance.com/
73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile),
  #13  
Old 10-06-2022, 12:03 PM
Stan Weiss's Avatar
Stan Weiss Stan Weiss is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,000
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff R View Post
I actually moved the Crower RAIV cam 4 times and raced the car after each movement.

It ran the best at 109ICL. It ran equally as well at 111ICL for MPH but off every so slightly in 60' times resulting in a couple hundreds worse ET.

Moving it to 113ICL KILLED it, idled rough, "lazy" in the normal driving range, "soft" on 60' times and down 2mph on top end.

Here's the real SHOCKER. Moving it to 107ICL KILLED it even worse. Desptie the fact that everyone regurgitates the "advance the cam for more low end torque" deal, it ran WORSE at 107ICL than at 109 and 111.

Superficially it seemed a little more responsive right off idle and very light throttle driving the car, but a complete TURD at the track with good traction.

Goes back to someone telling us a LONG time ago how sensitive these engines can be to the intake closing point.......FWIW.......
Cliff,
While that is great information about a Crower RAIV cam with out having a Cam Dr file of the Crower RAIV cam we have no way of knowing how that applies to the Crane or NOS RAIV cams.

Stan

__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises
Offering Performance Software Since 1987
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm
David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV
Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php
Pontiac Pump Gas List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm
Using PMD Block and Heads List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm
  #14  
Old 10-06-2022, 12:16 PM
Stan Weiss's Avatar
Stan Weiss Stan Weiss is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,000
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay S View Post
I have never used Crane’s blueprint 041 cam. Looks to me like Crane may have used their own profile design versus holding true to the original. My impression of it looking at the cam DR number’s is it has potential to run some more compression than other 041 grinds I have seen. Not a ton more, it also shouldn’t need as much cranking compression to run well compared to other 041 grinds like the SPC-8 copies.
Jay,
These number are not part of what was sent to me by Ken. This is a Pontiac 041. I have not been able to verify this numbers. Note most of the numbers above 0.050" are about this are about the same as the Crane, but the Crane seems to have more duration below that.

Cam_-_041_Lift______Opens___Closes__Duration
_________________Deg_BTDC__Deg_ABDC_____________Ar ea____ICL
_________0.00100____47.00_|_103.00_|_330.00_|__27. 15_|_118.00
_________0.00200____43.67_|__99.67_|_323.33_|__27. 12_|_118.00
_________0.00400____37.00_|__93.00_|_310.00_|__27. 12_|_118.00
_________0.00600____31.29_|__87.29_|_298.57_|__27. 06_|_118.00
_________0.01000____23.67_|__78.00_|_281.67_|__26. 96_|_117.17
_________0.02000____14.50_|__63.00_|_257.50_|__26. 78_|_114.25
_________0.04000_____5.33_|__52.23_|_237.56_|__26. 00_|_113.45
_________0.05000_____2.00_|__49.15_|_231.15_|__26. 00_|_113.58
_________0.10000___-14.33_|__34.43_|_200.10_|__24.73_|_114.38
_________0.15000___-28.83_|__19.67_|_170.83_|__22.45_|_114.25
_________0.20000___-43.00_|___3.00_|_140.00_|__20.64_|_113.00
_________0.25000___-61.82_|_-15.00_|_103.18_|__16.10_|_113.41
_________0.30000___-89.15_|_-43.15_|__47.69_|___7.70_|_113.00

Stan

__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises
Offering Performance Software Since 1987
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm
David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV
Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php
Pontiac Pump Gas List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm
Using PMD Block and Heads List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm
  #15  
Old 10-06-2022, 12:21 PM
Stan Weiss's Avatar
Stan Weiss Stan Weiss is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,000
Default

Does anyone know what the amount of bleed down is (in 0.001's of an inch) at low RPM for the Rhoads lifters?

Stan

__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises
Offering Performance Software Since 1987
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm
David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV
Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php
Pontiac Pump Gas List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm
Using PMD Block and Heads List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm
  #16  
Old 10-06-2022, 01:29 PM
Jay S's Avatar
Jay S Jay S is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Nebraska City, Nebraska
Posts: 1,672
Default

IRC…Bleed down for original Rhoads is supposed to be .015”-.020” at the valve. So with 1.65s it should be between .009”-.012” tappet.

The pure stock guys have been getting cheated running the Melling SPC-8 or the other white box replica’s of the RA 4. That cam DR file is quite a bit bigger at the low seat timings. Plus it has some Asymmetry from .050 down. The Crower 60919 and Melling SPC-8 I have had did not have that. The Crane looked like a worthy replacement though.

  #17  
Old 10-06-2022, 02:10 PM
Stan Weiss's Avatar
Stan Weiss Stan Weiss is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,000
Default

Crane 969681 Blue Print 041 with 0.010" removed from each lobe lift point

CAM_______Lift______Opens___Closes__Duration
_________________Deg_BTDC__Deg_ABDC_____________Ar ea____ICL
_________0.00100____21.55_|__75.31_|_276.86_|__24. 53_|_116.88
_________0.00200____20.61_|__73.71_|_274.31_|__24. 52_|_116.55
_________0.00400____18.91_|__71.09_|_270.00_|__24. 51_|_116.09
_________0.00600____17.43_|__68.93_|_266.35_|__24. 50_|_115.75
_________0.01000____14.78_|__65.40_|_260.18_|__24. 48_|_115.31
_________0.02000_____9.51_|__59.08_|_248.59_|__24. 37_|_114.78
_________0.04000_____1.45_|__50.18_|_231.64_|__24. 11_|_114.37
_________0.05000____-1.97_|__46.51_|_224.54_|__23.92_|_114.24
_________0.10000___-17.12_|__30.76_|_193.64_|__22.75_|_113.94
_________0.15000___-31.25_|__16.22_|_164.97_|__20.82_|_113.74
_________0.20000___-46.67_|___0.75_|_134.08_|__18.13_|_113.71
_________0.25000___-65.56_|_-18.21_|__96.23_|__13.78_|_113.68
_________0.30000__-101.00_|_-53.29_|__25.71_|___3.93_|_113.86

Stan

__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises
Offering Performance Software Since 1987
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm
David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV
Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php
Pontiac Pump Gas List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm
Using PMD Block and Heads List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm
  #18  
Old 10-08-2022, 06:57 AM
Cliff R's Avatar
Cliff R Cliff R is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Mount Vernon, Ohio 43050
Posts: 17,972
Default

"Cliff,
While that is great information about a Crower RAIV cam with out having a Cam Dr file of the Crower RAIV cam we have no way of knowing how that applies to the Crane or NOS RAIV cams."

Back then Crower was just re-boxing RAIV cams from CMC. They would "juggle" the specs on the website to look like something they ground special but it was nothing but the SPC-8 cam sold under a dozen or so different labels.

https://www.melling.com/wp-content/u...ck-294-304.pdf

Even the cam card in the box deviated from the website info. The cam card in the box showed the cam at 304/316, 231/240 and 113LSA with .470" lift with 1.5 rocker arms.

They may have started grinding their own at some point, but ALL of the 60919 cams I've purchased were just re-boxed RAIV cams.......FWIW........

__________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran!
https://cliffshighperformance.com/
73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile),
  #19  
Old 10-08-2022, 10:04 AM
Stan Weiss's Avatar
Stan Weiss Stan Weiss is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,000
Default

Back to the Elgin 909 / 744. It would be nice if someone had number from a NOS 744.

Here you can see that the intake never really dwells Green line and how the exhaust red line actually does dwell.

Stan
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Pont_Elgin_909_744.gif
Views:	71
Size:	22.5 KB
ID:	600118  

__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises
Offering Performance Software Since 1987
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm
David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV
Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php
Pontiac Pump Gas List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm
Using PMD Block and Heads List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm
  #20  
Old 10-08-2022, 10:11 AM
Jay S's Avatar
Jay S Jay S is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Nebraska City, Nebraska
Posts: 1,672
Default

The Elgin 909 sure looks impressive.

Right now the Crower 60919 and the Melling SPC-8 (white box 041s) are ground on different cam cores. Very obviously different cams today.

I have measurements from the last SPC-8 I did somewhere. As I recall it had 291* at .006” on the intake. My seat measurements on cams in factory blocks are generally 3 or 4 degrees less than a cam DR measurement. The advertised numbers (304 int, 315 exh) for the SPC-8 are .006” tappet at the valve, which takes into account the rocker ratios effect on duration. Closer to a .004” tappet duration depending on rockers ratios. I would expect a cam DR to show mid 290s int and mid 300s exh at .006” tappet on a SPC-8, but the centerlines won’t show much retard at the lower tappet lifts like the crane 041 and the 041 scan.

I would not be too surprised if a SPC-8 would have some slight assymetric's at low tappet lifts on a cam DR. The cam DR finds things that you do not always see checking something by hand.


Last edited by Jay S; 10-08-2022 at 10:35 AM.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:27 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017