[gtokid1968]

68 GTO 406 cid. Trubo 400 long tail.
II ask because, I have a real nice unscratched set of Hooker super comp Headers.
I know from past experience getting headers installed is a pain.
Looking for advise from someone that may have done it both ways as to which one is easier.

[F ROCK]

I've done it both ways with a t400. I did it by myself both times. I found it much easier to do it separately. Had to get the car up pretty high to do them together; and by myself it was tough for me to climb in there and guide and tilt the trans while lowering. Doing it separately was pretty easy. Also had to lift the car pretty high to get a set of Hooker comps in there. I went back to RA manifolds a few years after.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Both times I did my GTO motor, I installed it solo with the trans and convertor in the car propped up with 2x2 across the frame rails. I wrapped the headers and dropped them in place, held against the fender wells with bungee cords.

I supported the trans with a floor jack to match the angle of the motor (near horizontal), removed the 2x2, dropped the motor in place and slid it into place. It went in so easy I thought I must have "missed" by a mile but saw the dowels were in place. I tightened the bell housing bolts, dropped the floor jack and dropped the motor right on the mounts. Because I was working alone, I had to constantly stop and check my alignment as I progressed. I would never attempt an engine and trans combo seeing how easy it was with the trans (auto) in the car.

[gtokid1968]

Wonderfull!
Thanks fellas!
I have the car up on stands now, so I will leave it that way.
I think I will Bubble wrap the headers and pre-wire the starter.
Engine is already broke in so hopefully it will fire back up easily!

[Sirrotica]

From someone that did it for a living for over 50 years, leave the transmission in the chassis. Stick or automatic, its faster and easier to just install the engine, its also cheaper because you don't have to change the fluid in the transmission, and clean up the floor when it runs out of the transmission with the front of the engine pointed at the sky, and the old yoke you stuck in the transmission to stop the flood, either falls out, or drags on something dislodging it as you remove both units, been there done that.

There are a litany of things that make it easier, and faster, but I'm sure you'll get opposing opinions on here. Believe me, I have done it both ways, but when you work flat rate, and time is money, you'll soon know which way costs you money.

I'm a quick learner, and before my 20th birthday I knew what was quicker, and easier.

FWIW, any repair manual, be it factory, or otherwise, will give you instructions to only remove the engine, that comes from the people that designed the car.

One hint to make it easier to rejoin the 2 units, is to use either all thread, or cut the heads off of 2, 3/8 inch bolts and use them in the 2 lowest holes on the block. Saw a slot in them with a hack saw so you can use a flat blade screwdriver to remove them after the mating surfaces are together just in case you can't remove them with your fingers. Especially helpful if you're doing it alone.

[TedRamAirII]

This works great, you can put the Engine and Trans in, one shot. its pricey, but if you do it more than once, it works. https://www.amazon.com/Macs-Tie-Down...99600864&psc=1

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by gtokid1968

Wonderfull!
Thanks fellas!
I have the car up on stands now, so I will leave it that way.
I think I will Bubble wrap the headers and pre-wire the starter.
Engine is already broke in so hopefully it will fire back up easily!

Do not TRUST JACK STANDS, especially Chinese made ones.
Really would hate to see you get hurt.

You can use them IF you make wooden "Boxes" from 2 X 4 lumber that
you install under either the tires or the the frame rails to catch the car, IF
a jack stand would fail. B-Man made some really nice ones one time.

Maybe he can post a picture of them again.

Be SAFE.

Tom V.

[gtokid1968]

Thanks for the advise!
My jack stands are older units, I will put blocks under the control arm as well.

[Entropy11]

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

This works great, you can put the Engine and Trans in, one shot. its pricey, but if you do it more than once, it works. https://www.amazon.com/Macs-Tie-Down...99600864&psc=1

That thing is worth every dollar. Probably one of the best purchases I’ve ever made. Very convenient, especially when going at it solo.

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Do not TRUST JACK STANDS, especially Chinese made ones.
Really would hate to see you get hurt.

You can use them IF you make wooden "Boxes" from 2 X 4 lumber that
you install under either the tires or the the frame rails to catch the car, IF
a jack stand would fail. B-Man made some really nice ones one time.

Maybe he can post a picture of them again.

Be SAFE.

Tom V.

So true. Best to play it safe. I made a set from 2x4’s sandwiched between layers of 3/4 plywood with some strips that went on the front/rear of the top plywood to prevent rolling. I’m paranoid, I know… lol

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by gtokid1968

68 GTO 406 cid. Trubo 400 long tail.

Why do you have a long-tailshaft trans in an intermediate car?

Is this in fact a "Long" tailshaft trans (Cadillac D-body tailshaft) or the "Medium" tailshaft from a B- or C-body?

I'd have expected the short shaft, as used in A, X, F bodies.

[gtokid1968]

It is out of a Buick.
I have it because I got a good deal on it.
Most everything for this car has been bought cheap or rebuilt.
It's a low budget car, that somehow is up to $17,000.00
Good thing is the only thing left to buy is a drive shaft.

[JUDGE3]

Originally Posted by gtokid1968

Thanks for the advise!
My jack stands are older units, I will put blocks under the control arm as well.

Or go with these low height pin type 10 ton jack stands. safety is #1 for sure.

sheesh I can't believe the ones that were crazy common in the 70's. small steel jack stands that the flanges would bend with repeated use. shudder to think I used em like everyone i knew did. when young you think your invincible.

around 11 years ago a fella in town (no acquaintance) used concrete cinder blocks and they failed. cost him his life.

I dont use the silver ones except for non under the car stuff or for a backup type thing.

If you need to go real high like i did, 2 pics of the 10 ton high height.

the mentioned engine install tool is neat, nvr seen one. always installed separately.

[ZeGermanHam]

I just installed my engine and TH400 in my '66 last month. I did them separately, and it was extremely easy. I did not need any sort of leveler, either. Just a simple $20 engine hoist plate that bolts to the intake manifold. I lifted the engine both with and without front accessories installed and was able to get it completely level just by using a different hole on the plate.

First step was to drop the engine into the bay and get it on the mounts. Once bolted to the engine mounts, the engine was balanced enough on its own (without trans) to stay completely upright. Then I installed the transmission, which took probably under 15 minutes to get mated and all the bellhousing bolts installed. I then slid the headers into place from underneath, and then installed the starter and oil filter housing. Super easy. If you lay the headers in the engine bay ahead of time, I'd say there is a 95% chance that you are going to scratch them and possibly dent them when lowering the engine down onto the mounts.

[JUDGE3]

I have always installed separately simply because I enjoyed the process. guess thats bein a motorhead ha.

i know it likely nv happens but I nvr used a plate on my intakes. always scared the weight would rip the bolts right outta the aluminum! (wonder if thats happened to anyone?) always used the chain with one attached to the back of the drivers side head and the other to the front pass head.

did it that way from my first engine. do it enough and you know exactly what chain adjustment from the start.

heck, i'm just now able to do my work in a comfortable manner. I came up doing my work in my driveway out in every manner of weather. even in a dirt floor single car garage and was glad to have it!

[sdbob]

I've done it both ways.What ever I 'felt like' I even left my hood on my 65 and got the engine out and in when I was 25. My 63 GP I pulled engine and trans together. Hood off.Now dont know

[Tom Vaught]

I have always marked the hood mount locations: Hood and Mounts and removed the hood when doing engine out of vehicle work.

With two people installing the hood it always fits perfectly.

Tom V.

[tooski]

I've also done both. In my 75 the trans bolts are easy to get to. In my 68 the trans bolts are a real pita to remove and even more of a pita to reinstall.

[srmmmm]

Originally Posted by JUDGE3

I have always installed separately simply because I enjoyed the process. guess thats bein a motorhead ha.

i know it likely nv happens but I nvr used a plate on my intakes. always scared the weight would rip the bolts right outta the aluminum! (wonder if thats happened to anyone?) always used the chain with one attached to the back of the drivers side head and the other to the front pass head.

did it that way from my first engine. do it enough and you know exactly what chain adjustment from the start.

heck, i'm just now able to do my work in a comfortable manner. I came up doing my work in my driveway out in every manner of weather. even in a dirt floor single car garage and was glad to have it!

I agree with your thought on the aluminum manifold lift. I think lifting the engine out to start the restoration with a manifold plate cracked the bottom of the heat passage portion of my Torker manifold. Since I blocked off the crossover in the heads on the rebuild, I wasn't worried about the crack. But hanging 400+ pounds from four reasonably small diameter bolts in aluminum is not a very comfortable feeling.

[ZeGermanHam]

Eh, people do it every day with carbureted engines of all types with aluminum intakes and from what I've seen it's not a common issue. I understand the apprehension, but don't think it is a big risk. Given how frequently people lift heavy engines that way, we'd hear about it all the time if people were cracking intakes. That said, not all intake manifolds are the same from a structural standpoint, so perhaps there is some risk depending on your intake, but I just don't think it's a widespread issue regardless.

[Sirrotica]

Lifting with a plate on a aluminum intake is fine, the fastener strength of one (5/16ths) bolt is over 3 times what you're lifting. The only important item is to have more thread engagement into the aluminum intake than a cast iron intake needs, 4-5 threads isn't enough. Rule of thumb is twice the thread engagement into aluminum of the diameter of the fastener, which would be 5/8ths of an inch.

FWIW, one grade 2, 5/16 bolt tensile strength is 3878 lbs, 4 bolts is around 15,000 lbs, or 4 complete cars. A Pontiac V8 with a TH 400 hanging on the back of it is under 1000 lbs.

Lots of overkill, reminds me of someone that has 20,000 lb jack stands under a 4000 lb car.