[gregsgtos2]

i bought the sd rav blower engine a guy had about 15 minutes from me.if the heads dont sell,will probably go ahead and put the engine back together.he sold the OTHER set of rav heads that were already done for this engine.so i got the SPARE set-bare.consists of a 73 sd block and rav heads-blown.7.7-1 compression with the blower set up.built by bill foder-498 c.i.-around 1000 hp.thinking about putting it in a street car.can you say-PONTIAC EXCITEMENT!??

[RAM AIR V]

Just got to say no matter what is written, the RAV head is the best Pontiac factory cast head for making HP! No other stock port head has the capability of producing more. No D port or O port modified Pontiac head can match a properly modified V head.

Same with the factory 4bl intake. Other then the GP, I never used anything but a factory 4bl. Factory tunnel ram, or factory cross ram. Hit almost 700hp with a 30 over 455, stock V heads, factory 4bl intake. Only change to the heads were custom pushrod fins and seat angles.

Can they match what is available aftermarket today for top performance – NO. (plus the cost is getting over the top) Have 2 running V powered cars still with a third in partial assembly, but run Edelbrock heads on my 68 GTO.

Originally Posted by Steve Barcak

I too, would like to see a list of V powered Pontiacs who either set records, won races, or were at least very completive in an established racing class. Not brackets, not indexes, etc. the list would be very short, or non existent at all. If anyone reading this has documented proof of a V Pontiac that has done the above, please add here.

Steve - I set 5 of the 6, F/A 1, 2, and 3 AHRA records at the same national meet in 1977 with my 63SD car 421 RAV heads. Set the 6th at the next one. Whenever someone would lower them or increase the MPH, I’d reset it. That went all the way till AHRA closed.

Would have set them earlier, but it took me that long to get AHRA to approve them.
NHRA never would appove them plus NHRA would not even approve the car for S/S. They sent me a nice letter that stated Pontiac did not make enough SD Cat’s in 63, so it can not run no matter what is under the hood.



Greg – Good luck with the sale!

Jerry Steinbrick

[Wareagle]

Steve Barcak - good point about the 70 T/A 455 RAM AIR V -- But I have heard about dealer installed RAM AIR V 400 engines in GTO's and a few T/A'S --I read there were about 200 complete engines done.
Anyone on here have a dealer installed RAM AIR V engine .

[Dragncar]

The RAV has a very good exhaust port. A RAV head has the highest ex flow of any head to date on Whittmores flow bench. And that includes a big pair of Ford Motown heads.
The head I would like to see is a aluminum head with the RAV exhaust port, to keep it some Pontiac. And to get rid of the siameesed exhaust. Combined with a intake port like DCIs 500cfm Tiger port.
That would be as far as you could take a inline Pontiac head without canting the valves or stretching the block.
Keep a Pontiac 4 bolt valve cover on it and RAV headers.

[azbirds]

IIRC, Pontiac only built about 25 RA-V's and made enough parts to build 200 engines. I ran a 455 with the V parts and it did fee like and sound like no other Pontiac I've owned. I never got a chance to sort the combo out before I turned the parts loose.

[Steve Barcak]

Jerry writes-
"Steve - I set 5 of the 6, F/A 1, 2, and 3 AHRA records at the same national meet in 1977 with my 63SD car 421 RAV heads. Set the 6th at the next one. Whenever someone would lower them or increase the MPH, I’d reset it. That went all the way till AHRA closed."

I've yet to meet you personally but, I have greatly admired your efforts and acomplishments with Pontiacs.
I also appreciate you adding here. I think it is safe to say that you have had the most success in racing with V stuff. correct? Most others have not for whatever reasons.
I just have never heard of, or read or, or spoke too, anyone who has had great success with V stuff in actual class racing.
I hope to get to meet you sometime. are you doing anything today with Pontiacs? racing? restoring? building motors? etc?

I always liked AHRA better in the day because of their classes, etc. Our local track here in Phoenix in the day was Beeline and it was NHRA sanctioned.

Hosting 11th annual Pontiac Heaven, show, swap, drags, party and all around good time. Saturday April 4, 2009 at Speedworld near Phoenix, Az
Also hosting- 7th annual Nostalgic Show and Go! and swap coming Sunday April 5, 2009 to Speedworld. Phoenix, Az

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by RAM AIR V

Just got to say no matter what is written, the RAV head is the best Pontiac factory cast head for making HP! No other stock port head has the capability of producing more. No D port or O port modified Pontiac head can match a properly modified V head.

Same with the factory 4bl intake. Other then the GP, I never used anything but a factory 4bl. Factory tunnel ram, or factory cross ram. Hit almost 700hp with a 30 over 455, stock V heads, factory 4bl intake. Only change to the heads were custom pushrod fins and seat angles.

Can they match what is available aftermarket today for top performance – NO. (plus the cost is getting over the top) Have 2 running V powered cars still with a third in partial assembly, but run Edelbrock heads on my 68 GTO.




Steve - I set 5 of the 6, F/A 1, 2, and 3 AHRA records at the same national meet in 1977 with my 63SD car 421 RAV heads. Set the 6th at the next one. Whenever someone would lower them or increase the MPH, I’d reset it. That went all the way till AHRA closed.

Would have set them earlier, but it took me that long to get AHRA to approve them.
NHRA never would appove them plus NHRA would not even approve the car for S/S. They sent me a nice letter that stated Pontiac did not make enough SD Cat’s in 63, so it can not run no matter what is under the hood.



Greg – Good luck with the sale!

Jerry Steinbrick

Jerry, tell us some more about your Pro Stock R.A. V Pontiac. I'm pretty certain that you are the only person to ever successfully qualify a traditional Pontiac V8 in Pro Stock at a NHRA race. What year was that? 1982? 1983? I'd love to hear more about it and I'm sure others would as well.

[SWEETJUDGE]

i have a set, & i hope i can hang in there with billz my house & this economy or im gonna be forced to sell them.
The article in HPP about henleys V costing 40K to build im not sure is 100% accurate.
Keep in mind when he found the car he had to hunt for the original engine which he did find & the guy knew what he had... you want it you pay for it. Chuck had to have the engine.. no matter the cost. I agree this is a KINGs part for sure, heads & intake will send you to the poor house, but for car shows it can be built around any pontiac block resonably... it may not set any records but were not going after JOHN FORCE here. There is a complete V motor block & rare 2x4 intake here in CT at my buddies machine shop be built for trans am racing... YES they are RACING the motor correct V block & all......

[gregsgtos2]

the 421 rav engine that i put in the gold 69 gto came straight out of vance hecks race car.he about flipped out when he saw it under the hood of a street car.

[Judge273]

Sweet, Henley's car was originally a RA IV car with the original engine long gone. The V block was one used in it's racing days after the IV blew up as I read the article.

[BruceWilkie]

Dragncar the RAV ex port is good. However compared to the intake some revision to the exhaust wouldnt hurt if you were going to revise this head. The HPP article mentions the intake to exhaust ratio.

[Bruce Meyer]

First thing I want to say is I dont know anything about RA V heads. Ive seen them in person but have no experience with them.
I was just reading through some old HPP mags and came across an interview with Herb Adams. For those of you that never heard of Herb Adams, he was an engineer for Pontiac and actually had real time experience racing Pontiacs on the track.
Here is a quote from him HPP Feb 2000.

"DeLorean wanted more power out of the Pontiac to match the Fords and Chryslers despite GM,s policy on racing. Engine developement informed him that there was no more power to be had with the current head design. Next thing we knew, we were developing tunnel port heads like Ford had. People say that they were too big and thats just not true.
The problem was they didnt flow worth a damn.
The pushrod tube in the middle of the port caused tremendous turbulance. We even developed an airfoil that helped, but it just wasnt the right setup. You know, it was not uncommon to persue a given idea for a while and then decide whether it worked or didnt. These heads were just never quite right."

[GTOGEORGE]

Flow.............Shmow, you put a Blower on top those heads and your going to make BIG power!


GTO George

[Scott Roberts]

George,

You still need good flow charactoristics with a blower motor. That old idea that a big hole and a blower makes power is only partially true. Shape desighn is just as important with a blower as it is N/A.

True you can make power with any old port and a blower but you can make much more with the correct port and a blower. The air and fuel still need to get to the chamber. You can make it hard on them or easy.

[Steve Barcak]

The first Pontiac powered Pontiac to qualify in NHRA Pro Stock was the Astre of Bert Struas (sp?) out of Canada. I think it was Ontario. It actually did better than qualify....it was LOW qualifier at a 1974 NHRA National event in the east, maybe have been Ohio, don't remember. It is documented though. It was called "Chief Chilly Willy" and ran a high exhaust port IV style motor, around 370 inches, with 2 4bbl Holleys split in half ( first time done as best I know, commmon today in mountain motors). Later in the year, it was protested and was not legal anymore. At the time, the Astre was not sold in the US.
That was a wicked Pontiac. They had their act together.
Car has been featured a few times in magazines in the day and since then. SS&DI I think had the first article on it and it blew the minds of the press and chev, ford and mopar guys that a Pontiac could do that. What a car! Sorry, off of the thread topic.


Steve

Hosting 11th annual Pontiac Heaven, show, swap, drags, party and all around good time. Saturday April 4, 2009 at Speedworld near Phoenix, Az
Also hosting- 7th annual Nostalgic Show and Go! and swap coming Sunday April 5, 2009 to Speedworld. Phoenix, Az

[GTOGEORGE]

Scott Roberts Quote: "George,

You still need good flow charactoristics with a blower motor. That old idea that a big hole and a blower makes power is only partially true. Shape desighn is just as important with a blower as it is N/A.

True you can make power with any old port and a blower but you can make much more with the correct port and a blower. The air and fuel still need to get to the chamber. You can make it hard on them or easy."

GEE Scott, I never new that!

So what you are saying is, you can make more power with a RA4 head than a RA5 head with a Blower?



GTO George

[Brian Baker]

I think what George is saying is that a blower will mask flow deficiencies in a head, in some cases to the point where the deficiencies don't matter.

I think what Scott is saying is that if using a blower can negate any flow deficiencies in a head, than it will work even better if the head is void of flow deficiencies.

Howzat'?! Am I in the ballpark?

[Elarson]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

I think what George is saying is that a blower will mask flow deficiencies in a head, in some cases to the point where the deficiencies don't matter.

I think what Scott is saying is that if using a blower can negate any flow deficiencies in a head, than it will work even better if the head is void of flow deficiencies.

Howzat'?! Am I in the ballpark?

Correct.

Eric

[potentpontiac]

Steve. You are correct about Bert Strauss being involved with the RA-5 Engine in Pro Stock.I think the Astre was campaigned in the late 70's. They where located in Barrie Ontario,Canada approx, 1 Hour north of Toronto. Performance Engineering run by Jim Francis was one of the developers on the engine they ran.There are some old articles regarding their accomplishments with this RA-5 Headed 366?? cu.inch motor. Correct me if I'm wrong on displacement.I do believe they qualified at the US Nationals in Pro Stock with the Astre. Someone probably has the article in their archives with what they had achieved with the Pontiac Power plant. Oddly enough the shop that this car campaigned out of is still in business,which is currently run by Al Billes,Pro Mod Engine developer. It was the Chilley Willey's Astre.

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

GEE Scott, I never new that!

So what you are saying is, you can make more power with a RA4 head than a RA5 head with a Blower?



GTO George

I kind of figured you didn't George. Seeing as your 3000lb blower car is still running 8.30's after 3 years.

I bet we can make more power with a Tiger over a Ram V with the 475ci motor we have.