[gregsgtos2]

gee,i didnt know that a tiger head was a pontiac produced head.i guess i just learned something.cant seem to find it in any of my literature?also,the 303,366,and 400 didnt have enough cubes for the rav heads.a 455 works real good.

[Scott Roberts]

I don't recall anyone suggesting they were. However, my point being one could make more power with a smaller yet better port (Tigers) over a bigger not so good port (Ram V ).

[7T2]

ive seen as cast tigers listed at 310cc from CFMCNC, the V's at 274cc from Tom S. i figure the V port length isnt much more than IV length of 5" +/-. is the tiger that much longer?

[GTOGEORGE]

Scott Roberts Quote: "I kind of figured you didn't George. Seeing as your 3000lb blower car is still running 8.30's after 3 years."

Actually Scott it's been only 2 years and 50+ passes, also it's 8.20's not 8.30's. The most important thing is has that there has been no problems with the engine...........heads have never been off (let me know if your engine does as GOOD, I doubt it) . Also it's my first time ever running Alcohol, plus I also drive it!

More Scott Robert's Quote: "I bet we can make more power with a Tiger over a Ram V with the 475ci motor we have."

I'm not sure you would win that bet! Sure would be interesting!


GTO George

[GTOGEORGE]

Scott,
I think they out to put Alky in the Boss Bird and kick your cars BUTT.

GTO George

[Steve Barcak]

"Scott,
I think they out to put Alky in the Boss Bird and kick your cars BUTT. "

Ok....I think you should be less focused on Pontiacs competing with Pontiacs and look at all of these accomplishments and learn from them....be motivated by them, and concentrate on competing with 'enemy' brands. Pontiacs should not be fighting Pontiacs, we should be on the same side. I never look at another Pontiac powered car as an enemy. I look at them as an ally. We are on the same side and the world is against us. Why dicker amongst ourselves?

"Steve. You are correct about Bert Strauss being involved with the RA-5 Engine in Pro Stock.I think the Astre was campaigned in the late 70's. They where located in Barrie Ontario,Canada approx, 1 Hour north of Toronto. Performance Engineering run by Jim Francis was one of the developers on the engine they ran.There are some old articles regarding their accomplishments with this RA-5 Headed 366?? cu.inch motor. Correct me if I'm wrong on displacement.I do believe they qualified at the US Nationals in Pro Stock with the Astre. Someone probably has the article in their archives with what they had achieved with the Pontiac Power plant. Oddly enough the shop that this car campaigned out of is still in business,which is currently run by Al Billes,Pro Mod Engine developer. It was the Chilley Willey's Astre."

I am sure this car came out in '73, or even late '72, as it had a flat nose on it to start with ( '72-'73 style). For '72, NHRA redid PRO Stock rules. the mopars could not be beat in '70 and '71 so, for '72, they allowed weight breaks for small inch cars in subcompact bodies. Almost overnight, the mopars were not competitive anymore. Jenkins had the 331" Vega and the 351"C"s became very competitve. This is were the Pontiac had its chance ( in this displacement ) in NHRA Pro Stock. Even AMC had a shot at it and tried. It was the end of a very cool and innovative time in Pro stock that has not been back in about 29 years. As the '64-'67 time frame was the golden years for funny car evolvement from SS to floppers, NHRA Pro stock shared this extremely innovation time from about 1972 'til 1979. Once the standardized 500 inch motors were the rules, it was all over for the real hot rodders and innovators. if you have studied what was happening in pro stock in the mid 70s, you would understand. stuff like what they did with 351 "C" heads, Pontiac heads, even AMC heads and more. Really neat stuff, a very exciting time. I am glad there was a Pontiac or 2 in the mix in that class. They are an inspiration to me to this day.

I say this is where Pontiac had its chance in pro stock because this was when the rules allowed for a competitive car with less than 6 litres of displacement. This is were Pontiacs can really compete head to head on cubic inches to weight n/a and no power adder because of our bore spacing. 4.62" is not a liability in a inch to weight n/a class with under 6 liters ( around 366 or less ). Once the 500" pro stock displacement was standardized around 1980, Pontiac had a distinct disadvantage because of its design but, in the early and mid 70s, that was not the case.
I also remember this Astre having IV style heads with high exhaust, not Vs. Maybe it did later as the car evolved. the 'early' paint job had "Chief Chilly Willy" painted on the side with a penguin. I do not remember the exact displacement but it could not have been larger than about 370", probably was around 330"-350", for the weight break. I do remember seeing a pic of the car wit the slanted, '74 style nose. But, this car was in Pro Stock in '73,'74 for sure.
Pontiacs can still be very competitive today in this displacement (320-380"). Jack Gifford did it in the 90s. I am still trying to do it myself in my class. The small inch Pontiac can compete inch for inch with other brands.


finally..."also,the 303,366,and 400 didnt have enough cubes for the rav heads.a 455 works real good"
My understanding is about the same. The V liked inches, it even seemed to like low rpm bigger inches over smaller high rpm. It would be nice if Jerry decides to share some of his knowledge with the public here as he really has been the main person with any amount of success with them. He will have to decide if he wishes to keep his secrets of what he knows about Vs to his grave or share them with those who have interest. One must pass the torch if they want the next Pontiac generations to do better than he did. How important is it to pass this info down? So many who have accomplished with Pontiacs are no longer with us.
Steve

Hosting 11th annual Pontiac Heaven, show, swap, drags, party and all around good time. Saturday April 4, 2009 at Speedworld near Phoenix, Az
Also hosting- 7th annual Nostalgic Show and Go! and swap coming Sunday April 5, 2009 to Speedworld. Phoenix, Az

[65nss4spdGTO]

[QUOTE=RAM AIR V;3528475]Just got to say no matter what is written, the RAV head is the best Pontiac factory cast head for making HP! No other stock port head has the capability of producing more. No D port or O port modified Pontiac head can match a properly modified V head.

Jerry,

How much power can we make with a "good modified" set of V's in a 500ci Motor N/A?

Can we make close to 2 hp per cubic inch?

Thanks.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

[440GP69]

[QUOTE=65nss4spdGTO;3529732]

Originally Posted by RAM AIR V

Just got to say no matter what is written, the RAV head is the best Pontiac factory cast head for making HP! No other stock port head has the capability of producing more. No D port or O port modified Pontiac head can match a properly modified V head.

Jerry,

How much power can we make with a "good modified" set of V's in a 500ci Motor N/A?

Can we make close to 2 hp per cubic inch?

Thanks.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

Maybe Someone could loan me a set for testing on My 535 LOL Just kiddin!, Really would Like to see an Aluminum Ugrade Made available as an Option for Big Power and one made Availible at Reasonable cost I mean How cool would a 535-5 be with a Cast Single 4 Single Plane! I Think they were ahead of their time IMO And with all these Wide and Hi Ports CV's and Tiger Heads out there I guess its Pretty strange we don't have an Aluminum Remake of the RA5's IMO, Milt Schornak still with a 400cid engine was goin g 11.60's at near 120, That ain't bad at all!

[65nss4spdGTO]

Attached is a picture of Ray Bisig's 1963 Swiss cheese 1963 Catalina RAV powered race car. The car ran well into the 11's. Ray has always a been, run what you brung kinda a guy going fast on a limited budget. Ray is a long time family friend and a Pontiac purest. He was fortunate enough to get a hold of Pontiac history in it's glory day's. The was once one of Arnie's cars.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

[440GP69]

Thats Awesome! Thanks for Sharing!

[SWEETJUDGE]

dollar for dollar & part for part the Vs although rare are 40 year old dinosaurs. I have set for eye candy at car shows & would never consider all out racing them due to there rarity & expense... any current aftermarket head would be a better choice in my opinion. I know a little about blowers & the better the head flow the better the boost that blower will make....

[GTOGEORGE]

Sweetjudge,
With so called better flowing heads (or the heads you can push more air & fuel mixtue through) you will have less boost and more power. Boost is a measure of restrictions in the engine (heads, cam, intake manifold & exhaust system). The less restrictions the less boost numbers and the MORE power. You do have to remember it’s not an N/A engine and that you are pushing the air & fuel mixture through with the Blower. That's why I say the BIGGER the hole the more you can push through the MORE power. So give me that BIG RA 5 hole!


GTO George

[gregsgtos2]

well,according to bill foder-who built this blower v engine-498 cubic inches-1000 horsepower.so,thay would be 2 hp per ci.

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by gregsgtos2

well,according to bill foder-who built this blower v engine-498 cubic inches-1000 horsepower.so,thay would be 2 hp per ci.

Marty Palbykin's d-ports went more than that per cubic inch with forced induction, so what does that say?

[GTOGEORGE]

Brian Baker Quote: "Marty Palbykin's d-ports went more than that per cubic inch with forced induction, so what does that say?"

It means with a good set of heads (RA5) you can make a whole lot more!


GTO George

[tom s]

if everything goes well for me this year we will try and make 2HP per CI N/A with my 366 RA V engine.FWIW,Tom

[Elarson]

Originally Posted by tom s

if everything goes well for me this year we will try and make 2HP per CI N/A with my 366 RA V engine.FWIW,Tom

Sounds great! Keep us posted.

Eric

[gregsgtos2]

rick johnson built a facrory rav engine last year-.030 over-stock build.400 rav block-dynoed 555 horsepower with no extra TRICKS.

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

Brian Baker Quote: "Marty Palbykin's d-ports went more than that per cubic inch with forced induction, so what does that say?"

It means with a good set of heads (RA5) you can make a whole lot more!


GTO George

Exactly. Saying a head can go "X" amount of HP via forced induction means nothing.

[tom s]

Greg,it did have more CR and way more cam than a stock motor but is still a great number.Tom