#21  
Old 04-21-2022, 09:42 PM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 31,294
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rar_421 View Post
Had no idea Tom was involved with Pontiac projects,he was very well known for his work with Kohler snowmobile race engines with Rupp and the Kalamazoo Kyotee sno pro sleds,I've been collecting parts to build a Kalamazoo Kyotee replica
He ever take you for a ride in his 1000 hp chevy Pontoon Boat??

Tom V.

__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
  #22  
Old 05-04-2022, 05:29 AM
spectramitch's Avatar
spectramitch spectramitch is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: MI
Posts: 106
Default

The dowels in the block are .308 DIA and the New billet caps came reamed already to .312. The new caps should just drop on with slop, they do not. It seems like the spacing between dowels on PMD is not the same as the billet. Has anyone encountered this? It sounds like I need to re-establish location with a mill cutter and maybe open up to 3/8" dowel and not just re-ream the block holes.


Last edited by spectramitch; 05-04-2022 at 06:03 AM.
  #23  
Old 05-04-2022, 06:36 AM
krisr's Avatar
krisr krisr is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sydney, OZ
Posts: 1,433
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgarblik View Post
I will add, when drilling or taping stainless steel, use Elmer's glue as a lube. Just the plain old white glue! Sounds crazy, works beautifully. I don't know why. Friend who owns a sheet metal shop showed me that.
I've never heard of using Elmers for a tapping lubricant in SS! I'm guessing you see much more tap life with it?

__________________
'71 Holden HQ Monaro - 3850lbs race weight, 400c/i - 11.4 @ 120
'66 Pontiac GTO - 389, 4 speed street cruiser
  #24  
Old 05-04-2022, 09:10 AM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 6,035
Default

The biggest difference I have seen is when drilling SS with high speed steel or cobalt bits. The glue doesn't let the bit overheat and the SS doesn't turn blue like it often does. Use the glue and moderate to slightly high constant pressure and it drills right through. Again, I don't know the science behind why it works, but it does.

The Following User Says Thank You to mgarblik For This Useful Post:
  #25  
Old 05-06-2022, 03:37 PM
shermanator2 shermanator2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: San Diego, CA and Niwot, CO
Posts: 120
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spectramitch View Post
The dowels in the block are .308 DIA and the New billet caps came reamed already to .312. The new caps should just drop on with slop, they do not. It seems like the spacing between dowels on PMD is not the same as the billet. Has anyone encountered this? It sounds like I need to re-establish location with a mill cutter and maybe open up to 3/8" dowel and not just re-ream the block holes.
Stock Pontiac dowels are about 0.3096" diameter. With the Milodon splayed caps that I have, a 0.3096 dowel will drop into the holes, but a 0.3125 is not even close to fitting.

And BTW, I have bought dowels from http://www.precisionautomotivespecialists.com/. That is the only place I have found proper 0.3096" dowels. I also like the extra length of his.

The Following User Says Thank You to shermanator2 For This Useful Post:
  #26  
Old 05-06-2022, 04:04 PM
Skip Fix's Avatar
Skip Fix Skip Fix is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Katy,TX USA
Posts: 20,541
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spectramitch View Post
The dowels in the block are .308 DIA and the New billet caps came reamed already to .312. The new caps should just drop on with slop, they do not. It seems like the spacing between dowels on PMD is not the same as the billet. Has anyone encountered this? It sounds like I need to re-establish location with a mill cutter and maybe open up to 3/8" dowel and not just re-ream the block holes.
Yes the 400 block I had converted the shop id not really check fit. One of the billet caps drops on the other 2 are tight as the spacing must be a hair off.

__________________
Skip Fix
1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever!
1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand
1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project
2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4
1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project
1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs
  #27  
Old 05-10-2022, 04:31 PM
spectramitch's Avatar
spectramitch spectramitch is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: MI
Posts: 106
Default

Current Progress, I think the fixture is coming along nice. Now I need to pick up locations of dowels in the block and in the cap to figure out what amount to move holes to get back in line with each other. I am going to try to make 8mm dowels work.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5464.jpg
Views:	175
Size:	63.3 KB
ID:	590559   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5471.jpg
Views:	184
Size:	62.2 KB
ID:	590560   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5466.jpg
Views:	170
Size:	40.2 KB
ID:	590561   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5483.jpg
Views:	182
Size:	63.2 KB
ID:	590562   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5487.jpg
Views:	168
Size:	44.8 KB
ID:	590563  


  #28  
Old 05-10-2022, 04:33 PM
spectramitch's Avatar
spectramitch spectramitch is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: MI
Posts: 106
Default

I made the plates able to hold the block square and at 18°.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5490.jpg
Views:	194
Size:	68.0 KB
ID:	590564   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5493.jpg
Views:	169
Size:	70.6 KB
ID:	590565  

The Following User Says Thank You to spectramitch For This Useful Post:
  #29  
Old 05-11-2022, 07:01 AM
67Fbird's Avatar
67Fbird 67Fbird is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: GA
Posts: 465
Default

Looking good! Alot of work for a 1 off project but moving rather well. Is that couple of injection molds i see laying around?

  #30  
Old 05-11-2022, 12:18 PM
Scott Stoneburg's Avatar
Scott Stoneburg Scott Stoneburg is online now
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,179
Default

Nice work!

The Following User Says Thank You to Scott Stoneburg For This Useful Post:
  #31  
Old 05-11-2022, 08:54 PM
spectramitch's Avatar
spectramitch spectramitch is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: MI
Posts: 106
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67Fbird View Post
Looking good! Alot of work for a 1 off project but moving rather well. Is that couple of injection molds i see laying around?

Thank you, yeah its a bit of work but I am sure any engine machine shops near me would have totally hacked this thing up. Good eye those are some molds back there. Its crazy how many guys I work with making these custom molds and none of them have any idea what they are looking at when they see an engine block. One guy asked me “what are you doing for the exhaust there?” I said “what exhaust?”, as he pointed at the 3 freeze plug holes lol

  #32  
Old 05-11-2022, 09:11 PM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 31,294
Default

A lot of different knowledge levels out there. Congrats on a very nicely engineered fixture to drill your block.

Are you using bushings in the outer main caps holes to help locate the center lines of the drills when doing the initial small bit drillings
in the block?

Tom V.

__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
  #33  
Old 05-11-2022, 09:38 PM
spectramitch's Avatar
spectramitch spectramitch is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: MI
Posts: 106
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vaught View Post
A lot of different knowledge levels out there. Congrats on a very nicely engineered fixture to drill your block.

Are you using bushings in the outer main caps holes to help locate the center lines of the drills when doing the initial small bit drillings
in the block?

Tom V.

I did make a drill guide ‘sleeve’ to fit inside the splayed hole and have the ID be the tap drill for 7/16-14. I was going to use that for if I had to use my bridgeport with the head tipped. Now that im doing it in the cnc. Im not sure if I am going to use it or not because I am planning on installing the caps on dowels with block set on the 18* fixture side. Then tramming center zero in cap and spot facing, center drill, tap drill then tap.

  #34  
Old 05-12-2022, 09:51 AM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 31,294
Default

Thanks.

Tom V.

__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
  #35  
Old 05-19-2022, 09:29 AM
spectramitch's Avatar
spectramitch spectramitch is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: MI
Posts: 106
Default

I have the new dowels installed and they fit very nice now. I have layed out the thrust 'step' dimensions. I will do a rough cut and re-install and make sure measurements are lining up before finish cut.

For drilling the 18° holes, how deep until the water jacket becomes close?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5503.jpg
Views:	183
Size:	59.3 KB
ID:	591134   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5536.jpg
Views:	199
Size:	60.9 KB
ID:	591135   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5541.jpg
Views:	192
Size:	63.0 KB
ID:	591136  

  #36  
Old 05-19-2022, 10:15 AM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 31,294
Default

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...22#post2332622

All the info you need is here.

Thanks to Pontiac Jack and others.

"You don't really want .001" interference fit in the block. A "light press fit" is called for, which means very close to a "zero" fit. Usually the first 1/4" or so of a reamer is slightly undersize (some fraction of .001") and gives the fit you want.
You also don't want a 34mm long dowel- more like 5/8"-3/4", with more than half of it into the block. You could shorten them with a cut-off wheel, then grind a little chamfer on the cut end." Pontiac Jack





Tom V.

__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
  #37  
Old 05-20-2022, 11:21 AM
shermanator2 shermanator2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: San Diego, CA and Niwot, CO
Posts: 120
Default

Out of curiosity, do you race guys use dip sticks? Or do you just assume no significant oil is lost between oil changes or tear downs? The reason this matters here, is that I have not figured out a dip stick solution that works with splayed caps. The stock dip stick would route through the splayed bolt. Something through the side of the pan could work.

  #38  
Old 05-20-2022, 12:26 PM
AG's Avatar
AG AG is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: NH
Posts: 3,240
Default

I don't use a dipstick on my race motor and it does not leak oil at all. I change the oil frequently enough it's not an issue.

__________________
1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule.
  #39  
Old 05-20-2022, 03:26 PM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Humbolt County California
Posts: 8,283
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shermanator2 View Post
Out of curiosity, do you race guys use dip sticks? Or do you just assume no significant oil is lost between oil changes or tear downs? The reason this matters here, is that I have not figured out a dip stick solution that works with splayed caps. The stock dip stick would route through the splayed bolt. Something through the side of the pan could work.
The only way as far as I know is to install one on the side of the pan. Canton makes a weld in version for their pans. You could adapt it to any pan if you wanted to bad enough.
I has Steffs weld in a bung for this on my aluminum pan I bought from them.
Not sure if I will even use it as there are plenty of knowledgeable racers getting by without any dipstick at all.


https://butlerperformance.com/i-2445...tegory:1285261

  #40  
Old 05-20-2022, 08:27 PM
73 TRANSAM 73 TRANSAM is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 545
Default

What I did on mine is to weld 6AN fitting then use a braided line then cut it to length for the dipstick to read correctly. This way its flexible enough then when ur done, just cap it with a 6AN plug. Incase ur running a vacuum pump.

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:49 PM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017