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Old 04-17-2022, 07:44 AM
jabgolfcars jabgolfcars is offline
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Default 69 t/a 3spd manual

Hey all, I've owned several GTO's & am new to Firebirds; found one I had to have & jumped in head first. 69 t/a orig cali car, solid unbelievably preserved body, sitting in dry storage unused approx 30 yrs. Orig RAIII, 3spd dearborn, runs & drives (after dealing with rotten fuel system). Research shows 15 3spds were built, only 1 built in Van Nuys, and this is believed to be the one. (correct me if I have bad info, anyone).
I'm in the process of pulling the motor, as it leaks oil & I'm looking to freshen it up. The first challenge I'm dealing with is the confined space in engine compartment compared to the mid size goats, but I'm learning as I go along.
My biggest obstacle right now is removing the tranny. The upper mounting bolts to bellhousing are in extremely tight quarters on the dearborn top loader. Can't even get a crowsfoot in there.
This has got to be serviceable without having to pull the motor/tranny out as a whole.
Pontiac folks are the best out there. Any helpful tips or advice would be greatly appreciated., and feel free to jump in with any thoughts you have on this car.
JAB

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Old 04-17-2022, 08:29 AM
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If you're pulling the motor for oil leak, why not pull it with the bellhousing?
I'd take the tranny off then pull engine/bellhousing together.
Or even leave tranny on and pull it all.
The bellhousing bolts are a pain to get to. Usually taking driveshaft out, pull crossmember and let the tranny hang down gives some room for bolts. (and lots of extensions/u-joints)



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Old 04-17-2022, 10:04 AM
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You should be able to access them after removing the trans crossmember and allowing the trans to drop down.

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Old 04-18-2022, 12:55 PM
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That TA was for sale for a long time on line. Super solid looking car, glad it found a home finally!

Those bellhousing bolts are a bigtime pita. even my six banger was hell to get at. better to remove engine with bellhousing as mentioned above. (no such luck with automatics).

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Old 04-18-2022, 02:06 PM
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Congrats on your find!! I own one of the Norwood 3 speed T/A’s although mine had a non original drive train so not original as yours. As stated, pull the motor with the bell housing on and make life easy on yourself. With the rad and distributor out there will be plenty of room..

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Old 04-18-2022, 05:42 PM
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We also have one of the 3spd 69 T/As. It is totally original as the day we bought it in 1977 for $3000. Somewhere I have a letter from Pete McCarty that he sent me in the early 90s listing the VIN#s of all the 3spd 69 T/As built. IIRC......the list only had 14 cars on it with only one of them having the tach and guage package. That car is the one we still own. It also came with the formula wheel with the wings down bird horn button.

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Old 04-18-2022, 07:38 PM
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Thanks to all for your replies and comments. Any info on this car is certainly welcome, as there's not much of a paper trail on it unfortunately. I'm going on hearsay from previous owner.
The story goes: sold new in San Diego, a woman bought it. Wanted the 3spd because insurance was cheaper than a 4spd. She sold it to a neighbor who had it for a few years. Was then purchased by a gentleman who lived in Phoenix. Spent time there till he relocated to Florida, where it was stored in one of those inflatable bubbles for a good part of 25 yrs. He then sold it to a dealer in NC where I found it. He had the car for 7yrs where it mostly sat.
I tried to contact the dealership that sold it new. As fate would have it, the dealership was sold about a half year ago.
I pulled the rear seats & removed the carpet looking for build sheet, had the tank out also. Nothing. I hear it was sometimes put on top of glovebox. Will be checking there next.
With all your helpful advice, I'll be pulling the motor/trans out this coming weekend. Thanks again!

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Old 04-18-2022, 08:20 PM
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FYI: That Dearborn trans is heavy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jabgolfcars View Post
Thanks to all for your replies and comments. Any info on this car is certainly welcome, as there's not much of a paper trail on it unfortunately. I'm going on hearsay from previous owner.
The story goes: sold new in San Diego, a woman bought it. Wanted the 3spd because insurance was cheaper than a 4spd. She sold it to a neighbor who had it for a few years. Was then purchased by a gentleman who lived in Phoenix. Spent time there till he relocated to Florida, where it was stored in one of those inflatable bubbles for a good part of 25 yrs. He then sold it to a dealer in NC where I found it. He had the car for 7yrs where it mostly sat.
I tried to contact the dealership that sold it new. As fate would have it, the dealership was sold about a half year ago.
I pulled the rear seats & removed the carpet looking for build sheet, had the tank out also. Nothing. I hear it was sometimes put on top of glovebox. Will be checking there next.
With all your helpful advice, I'll be pulling the motor/trans out this coming weekend. Thanks again!

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Old 04-19-2022, 02:56 PM
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Nice driveway…
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Old 04-19-2022, 05:00 PM
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I owned a 69 Van Nuys TA for a while, 4-speed, tach-n-stack and blue Custom trim. When travelling to pick it up in Santa Monica (I lived in Orlando at the time, 1987) I recall meeting a guy and his son in/near Phoenix who owned a couple or three 69 TA's including one that was another Van Nuys car. If not mistaken they were named Linxweiler, maybe Bob and Lou?

May be your car?

As an aside, I sold my car in 1996, it went to Michigan.

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Old 04-19-2022, 06:05 PM
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That driveway is a rear-wing rich environment.

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Old 04-19-2022, 06:24 PM
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I had a Dearborn 3 speed in my 66 GTO, and there was one tranny to bell housing bolt that I found impossible to install or remove, I THINK it was the top left one. I went to Harbor freight and bought a cheap set of S shaped wrenches, it did the trick 1/2 turn at a time, but it worked!

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Old 04-22-2022, 05:28 PM
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Thanks to all for your replies. FYI, I used a swivel socket to get to the hard to reach trans to bellhousing bolts, after removing crossmember & tilting tranny/motor asm downward. There was just enough room to get to it using a long extension. The universal swivel with socket attached to it didn't allow enough room. Tranny's out now, motor is next.
Einstein: the guy from Phoenix was named Steve; he had a brother who also had t/a's & GTO's, & also hung in circles with like-minded folks who I'm told had a t/a &/or GTO or two. The guy you spoke of may have known these guys.
JSuchma: would love to see that list if you come across it. That's good stuff! I hope to be chatting with you to compare notes on your car if you don't mind.
I'll be looking for someone familiar with Pontiac motors to freshen mine up. I'm in southeast VA, but will travel for someone reputable. If anyone can recommend anybody, I'm all ears.
Thanks again to all.

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Old 04-25-2022, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwfisher View Post
FYI: That Dearborn trans is heavy!
Man, you're not lying! That S.O.B. had some weight to it.

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Old 05-21-2022, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSuchma View Post
We also have one of the 3spd 69 T/As. It is totally original as the day we bought it in 1977 for $3000. Somewhere I have a letter from Pete McCarty that he sent me in the early 90s listing the VIN#s of all the 3spd 69 T/As built. IIRC......the list only had 14 cars on it with only one of them having the tach and guage package. That car is the one we still own. It also came with the formula wheel with the wings down bird horn button.
Your t/a sounds like a 1 of 1. Wow, congratulations! Although not a popular choice back in the day, there's gotta be a significance of the 3spds because of the rarity.
I'm trying to authenticate my gearbox, and can't find a vin# on it. Only a riveted tag with"RAT E1 054569". I'm curious if yours has a similar tag, or a vin# stamped on the case.
Thank you. Appreciate any info you may have.

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Old 05-21-2022, 11:53 AM
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Its on the top left..

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Old 05-21-2022, 11:59 AM
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Great history on these cars guys, really like hearing about these little niches of different cars . That TA parking garage (driveway shot) is pretty amazing. Very cool ��!
Thanks for sharing these cool cars and there stories w us.

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Old 05-22-2022, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jabgolfcars View Post
Your t/a sounds like a 1 of 1. Wow, congratulations! Although not a popular choice back in the day, there's gotta be a significance of the 3spds because of the rarity.
I'm trying to authenticate my gearbox, and can't find a vin# on it. Only a riveted tag with"RAT E1 054569". I'm curious if yours has a similar tag, or a vin# stamped on the case.
Thank you. Appreciate any info you may have.
I'll get with my brother and see if he has any info on the issue that would be of help.

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Old 12-01-2022, 09:04 PM
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I finally found the letter Pete McCarthy sent to me about the 69 TA 3 spds. As you can see, only 14 left the factory this way. Ours has the tach and guages.
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Old 12-01-2022, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jabgolfcars View Post
Your t/a sounds like a 1 of 1. Wow, congratulations! Although not a popular choice back in the day, there's gotta be a significance of the 3spds because of the rarity.
I'm trying to authenticate my gearbox, and can't find a vin# on it. Only a riveted tag with"RAT E1 054569". I'm curious if yours has a similar tag, or a vin# stamped on the case.
Thank you. Appreciate any info you may have.
Here is the tag on our Ford 3spd.
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