[dataway]

Any problems with the engine or are you just going to update it for some more HP?

[Verdoro 68]

No real problems, overall it ran pretty strong. Just a couple annoying oil leaks.

It would knock on occasion in warm weather even with conservative timing and dished pistons. I’ve always wondered if I did the math wrong and advanced the cam too far when I installed it. Hoping the knocking didn’t anything to the bearings.

[Verdoro 68]

Pulled the heads tonight. I know octane booster turned your plugs orange, but I didn't expect this much orange!




A little more carbon on the pistons than I was expecting, makes me wonder if my valve stem seals weren't doing their job as well as they could be. Pistons cleaned up pretty easy with some brake cleaner. Cross hatching in the cylinders looks good. Lifters and cam look good.

The head bolts were surprisingly easy to break free. I noticed some oil seepage from a couple bolts on the exterior so I might have stopped a ticking time bomb by pulling this apart now.

I also found a superficial crack on the back of the driver's side head around the valve cover sealing surface that was JB Welded at some point. Not sure how I missed that in the last rebuild. I suspect it was the source of one of my leaks.





The valley pan from BOP engineering is a nice piece. Just like the factory one without the raised edge portion on the front passenger side so roller lifters will clear. Also heard from Jeff Kauffmann today that the cam is only a couple days out so a load of parts will be here soon!

[dataway]

Hey, orange or not, those combustion chambers look pretty clean. And I bet a good portion of the carbon on those pistons could have been taken care of with a long hard pull down the highway as well as they cleaned up.

[Verdoro 68]

Have it down to the short block and spent a decent bit of time with a brass brush and a bunch of brake cleaner painstakingly cleaning off the carbon. Still a little bit to go. No bad surprises yet except I need a puller to get the timing gear off. I remember the gears being pretty tight when I installed it. Also, to answer my question about whether I over-advanced the cam - it turns out I installed it straight up.



The good news is I think it was the pan and not the rear main leaking. Once I get the block flipped over on the stand I'll give a closer look, but based on what's left on the oil pan and block my guess is the BOP one piece gasket was a primary culprit. I was a little bummed to find that the shop didn't install the crank scraper I supplied when this was built back in 2011. Oh well.









I was wondering what I would find in the oil pump screen. Early on in the engine's life I had an issue where the valve spring retainers hammered a few of the valve spring seals. I was expecting to find some remnants of springs or neoprene in there, but it was clean. I did find a decent sized chunk of painters tape in the screen. Not sure how that got there. Oops.

I also realized that I need different head bolts for the round port heads...and different exhaust manifold bolts...and different exhaust flanges. Also going to take the opportunity with this refresh to purge the remaining handful of ARP polished hex bolts on the engine I installed way back in the 90s. The shopping list keeps growing.

Quickly stacked everything on the short block to see how things would look I have a question in my other thread in the Street section about head gasket choices. I suppose I'll just go back with the old blue FelPro unless someone gives me another reason.

[dataway]

What are you going to go with for a pan gasket this time?

[Verdoro 68]

The BOP gasket. Reading old threads, getting it to seal around the radius of the main seems to be the biggest challenge. I’ll just take my time. There’s something around the seal on mine that’s either baked on oil or sealer that hardened up. It looks like shellac which made me think of the old Indian Head gasket sealer. I’m sure it didn’t help.

I’m debating whether I swap the rear main out to the one piece anyway. I really don’t want to pull the crank.

[Verdoro 68]

I pulled the caps off tonight to check out the rear main seal, and it looks like this project might be getting a little bigger. I'm not loving what I'm seeing on the cam and main bearings. I assume the rod bearings are similar. The crank journals don't look horrible to me though. Oh yeah, and it sure looks like the rear main was leaking.

Depending on the solution here, I may be revisiting my original dream of a stroker RA II.

[Verdoro 68]

Rods don't look quite as bad as the mains but they still don't look right. The flecks and spots are interesting. I guess that's from contamination? Either way, looks like new bearings are in my future one way or another.

[dataway]

Yep looks like a good time to put in new bearings .. looks like those have seen a lot of abrasive particles of some kind.
But ... you have it out .. in and out is the hard part, and you had to do that anyway, so a bit more time and money, and a warm fuzzy when it goes back in with new parts

[napster]

[QUOTE=Verdoro 68;6310118]

Depending on the solution here, I may be revisiting my original dream of a stroker RA II.


I just stumbled on to your project. I'm going to follow this.

I'm having an engine built using RA II heads. I thought the engine builder got a 427 stroker kit. Turns out it is a 461 stroker kit. Will be using the Butler HR RA IV series cam. I wanted the 427 kit but, it's too late to change as the the stroker kit was bought years ago. I get the feeling the Butler cam might be a tad small for a 461. I think it would have been perfect for an engine in the 433 to 440 area. The engine is going into a '69 GTO.

I wanted to ask you about the RA IV intake. Does it fit? I thought the RA II head was different on the intake side and required a different intake. Factory used the 234 intake. It seems from one of the other posts in another thread the RA IV intake fit. If it does, I would like to go that route. Did you get the '69 or '70 version of the repro RA IV intake?

Thanks,

Jim

[Verdoro 68]

Sounds like we're working on similar projects. Here's the carnage I found that led up to the rebuild: https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=855888

I'm leaning towards a 4" stroke for my build if only to keep the dish a little more sensible on the piston. I'm also hoping I can use the roller cam I already purchased but it might be on the small size for a 440 (224/230 .502/.510 112) What cam are you running with your 462?

RAII heads typically have the regular D-port intake size, but my heads have been gasket matched to RAIV sizes which is why I got the repro intake. Otherwise I'd be reusing my 234. Initial mockup of the intake didn't show any obvious problems. It's the '69 version from Parts Place. The ports need some work and I'm planning on doing some Jim Hand/Cliff R - style work to carb side. You can buy them from Parts Place already machined if you prefer.

The block and heads are at the machine shop, but I have the intake here. Happy to take some more pics or measurements if you like.

Some pics of the intake in this thread : https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...=853748&page=2

[napster]

Originally Posted by Verdoro 68

Sounds like we're working on similar projects. Here's the carnage I found that led up to the rebuild: https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=855888

I'm leaning towards a 4" stroke for my build if only to keep the dish a little more sensible on the piston. I'm also hoping I can use the roller cam I already purchased but it might be on the small size for a 440 (224/230 .502/.510 112) What cam are you running with your 462?

RAII heads typically have the regular D-port intake size, but my heads have been gasket matched to RAIV sizes which is why I got the repro intake. Otherwise I'd be reusing my 234. Initial mockup of the intake didn't show any obvious problems. It's the '69 version from Parts Place. The ports need some work and I'm planning on doing some Jim Hand/Cliff R - style work to carb side. You can buy them from Parts Place already machined if you prefer.

The block and heads are at the machine shop, but I have the intake here. Happy to take some more pics or measurements if you like.

Some pics of the intake in this thread : https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...=853748&page=2

Thanks for the reply.

I've been on the phone with my engine builder. He seems to think the ports on the intake side of the heads were worked on. He has to check. If he is correct the RAIV intake will be used. Otherwise, the 234 intake will go on.

The cam I'm using is the RA IV "041" Hydraulic Roller Retrofit Cam (287/296, 232/241, .507/.541 HR113). The displacement might be more like 468. That cam will be swallowed up by that much CID. I'm thinking something like @ .500 236/242 will work better.

I won't know for a few months what will happen. I want the engine dyno'd, but the shop he uses is building engines for race cars and have use of the dyno thru mid-April for the new race season. Therefore, it will be a while before it is assembled. The machine work is done on the block to receive the stroker kit. The heads have to be gone through so my engine builder is waiting a while before that is attended to.

[Verdoro 68]

Shops are so busy around here I'm on my own for assembly. I'm waiting to hear how cylinder sizes end up before ordering a kit. With the current delays, I wouldn't be surprised if I'm 6 months out or more before I get this thing back together.

232/241 seems ok to me, but I'm still learning about cam selection. I may also be a little conservative since I've got power brakes, R/A manifolds, A/C and an automatic to contend with.

[napster]

[QUOTE=Verdoro 68;6315530]Shops are so busy around here I'm on my own for assembly. I'm waiting to hear how cylinder sizes end up before ordering a kit. With the current delays, I wouldn't be surprised if I'm 6 months out or more before I get this thing back together.

232/241 seems ok to me, but I'm still learning about cam selection. I may also be a little conservative since I've got power brakes, R/A manifolds, A/C and an automatic to contend with.[/QUOTE

I have a '70 TA with RA IV heads. The displacement is 433. It has that 4 inch stroke you refer to. It uses a Butler HR custom grind cam (230/236, 112LSA and 1.65 roller rocker arms). It has power brakes, no a/c and is a manual with 3.73's out back.. The brakes stop on a dime. Still has the factory brakes front & rear. The engine was dyno'd with 447HP @5,000 RPM and 535 TQ @ 3,500 RPM uncorrected. I think corrected numbers are 460 HP and 545TQ. This is thru oversized RA manifolds and 2.5 inch mandrel bent exhaust. It sounds like a race car. I absolutely love that sound.

Something to think about with your engine. I know the exhaust side of the heads are different from the RA II head. That might be the difference in using the 230/236 cam I use in the 433. I actually considered using it before I found out about the retrofit Butler cam I have now for the RA II engine. Of course, that was before I knew the stroker kit was for a 461 instead of the 427 I thought it was.

[Verdoro 68]

Interesting. What you've got in your T/A sounds pretty good to me. I'd be really happy with those numbers and a race car sound If I end up going with a bigger stroke, sounds like I should look at other cams to make the most of it. It's such a slippery slope when you've got to buy a whole bottom end anyway. Why do you prefer the smaller displacement with the RAII/IV heads?

The Ram Air series rollers are interesting. I called Butler when I was planning the top end swap and they quickly recommended the 744 roller. It seemed conservative to me so I gave Kauffmann a call and went with his recommendation (Butler offers an identical grind). Those RA series cams all have a pretty wide LSA and are relatively low lift with a decent amount of duration, especially on the exhaust side. Must be a reason. I suppose they're intended to be used 1.65 rockers? I have a box of new PRW 1.5s I'll probably use on this build.

[Verdoro 68]

From the "while I'm in there" file...since the engine rebuild will take a while, this project has expanded to a suspension rebuild and engine compartment clean up.

Any suggestions on how to get the a/c compressor out of the way since the system is charged? Or, is there a way I can evacuate the system at home so I don't have to work around it?

[dataway]

I live in fear of mission creep ... but often it's the smart thing to do when everything is apart anyway.

Only thing I can think of it trying to hang it from the ceiling somehow.

[Verdoro 68]

Thinking about it...I could probably fab up a stand-off out of angle iron bolted to the frame to hold the compressor up and away so I can work.

[Irvs 68]

Not as aggressive as some I see here but building a garage to have room to work is going slowly. But I want to replace the convertible top cylinders and hoses to them (slow leak somewhere). Redo the dash and hopefully the interior upholstery and carpet.

Maybe I'll be done by spring!