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Old 12-14-2021, 11:19 AM
GoreMaker GoreMaker is offline
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Default OEM vs Aftermarket Hurst Shifter

I'm finding a lot of conflicting info on this, and most of the info refers to other, older cars anyways.

What were functional differences and benefits between the factory Hurst shifter vs an aftermarket Competition Plus shifter? My '77 Trans Am SE 400/4-speed has a Hurst shifter in it, though it looks OEM (the shift lever is pinned to the shifter, not bolted). Would there be any benefit in shift feel if I switched to an aftermarket Competition Plus shifter? Are there modifications or updates I can make to the OEM shifter that would provide the same benefits? Like perhaps some steel bushings or other different components? Are components for the aftermarket unit interchangeable with the OEM unit?

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Old 12-14-2021, 10:52 PM
Poncho Dave Poncho Dave is offline
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Older cars came equipped with Muncie shifters which can be a pain to get working properly. It’s usually just getting the linkage adjusted just right, but many people would have reoccurring problems and decided to change it to the hurst.

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Old 12-14-2021, 10:59 PM
GoreMaker GoreMaker is offline
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What I have is definitely an OEM Hurst shifter. It has the Hurst OEM part number on it. I'm just curious to know what the difference is between OEM Hurst and aftermarket Hurst Competition/Plus and if it's worth the switch.

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Old 12-15-2021, 12:54 AM
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I can't really answer to how much of an upgrade the Comp shifter is BUT, if you do a search their is a old Rocky Rotella article about how to adapt a Comp shifter base to original shift handle. That's what I did in my 77. Comp plus with factory chrome stick.

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Old 12-15-2021, 09:10 AM
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You could check out this youtube channel belonging to Paul Cangialosi. He has many videos regarding hurst shifters including some differences. You could also try reaching out to him. He’s pretty responsive and returned my email fairly quickly. His website is 5speeds.com. Don’t confuse his YouTube channel name with another website that is similar.

https://youtube.com/c/GearBoxVideo

This is the best picture I have, but when you say your handle is pinned, does yours look like what I have pictured? If so, it’s not pinned and it’s removable. There are bushings and clips that are replaceable that will firm up the stick in the receiver.

I can’t look for it now but he has a video showing how to rebuild a hurst. They’re not all that complicated. I rebuilt mine recently. Once you see how they work though you could probably figure out what is causing whatever slop you’re feeling (I assume is your issue since you asked about firming up your shifts)
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Old 12-15-2021, 09:49 AM
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On stock shifters where the linkage rods attach has rubber/plastic bushings whereas the Comp plus does not. Instead has holes that take a brasslike bushing(Way more positive and easier to keep in adjustment). Also, the CP shifter has adjustable shifter stops so no matter how hard you shift you won't do any damage to trans internals like break shift forks and such. And of course the shifter handle mounts differently and allows any shift handle you want or need.

I think this is the answer to your original question.

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Old 12-15-2021, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poncho Dave View Post
Older cars came equipped with Muncie shifters which can be a pain to get working properly. It’s usually just getting the linkage adjusted just right, but many people would have reoccurring problems and decided to change it to the hurst.
ITM (Inland Tool Manufacturing) made a few for GM and Chrysler. They are beyond garbage.























_

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Old 12-16-2021, 04:49 PM
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I have only driven two 2nd gen TA's with original Hurst shifter and thought the throws from 2nd to 3rd were long. I had a Nova with a muncie four speed and the Hurst Competition plus throws were much shorter then the original TA shifter. The Hurst CP has more adjustment at shifter to take out some of the slack in shifting

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Old 12-18-2021, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poncho Dave View Post
Older cars came equipped with Muncie shifters which can be a pain to get working properly. It’s usually just getting the linkage adjusted just right, but many people would have reoccurring problems and decided to change it to the hurst.
Muncie shifter ditched after 1968. This forum is 77-81 and all were T-10's with
Hurst shifters.

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Old 12-18-2021, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoreMaker View Post
What I have is definitely an OEM Hurst shifter. It has the Hurst OEM part number on it. I'm just curious to know what the difference is between OEM Hurst and aftermarket Hurst Competition/Plus and if it's worth the switch.
Have had both and driven both in same 79 T/A.
The Comp plus shifter is what I would call "Crisper" shifting.
The original had only 20K miles. softer universal type shifting.

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Old 12-18-2021, 04:15 PM
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Back in the day, the hot setup was to use the factory Pontiac arms, with the Competition Plus shifter, and C/P linkage.

The threaded linkage was much easier to keep in adjustment than the set screw style factory linkage was. The factory arms were shorter from center to center making a shorter throw than the C/P arms. The oilite bushings outlasted the plastic bushings many times over.

The C/P also had superior spring clips to hold the linkage, bushings, and arms together.

Put a drill bit in the shifter body, align the linkage, set the stops, that was the ultimate 4 speed shifter setup in my circle of friends. If you missed a shift with that setup, you better be looking for a car with an automatic.....LOL

The factory shifter was inferior on the set screw linkage, plastic bushings, no stops on the shifter body, lesser quality clips. It was superior on shorter center to center shift arms. Put all the best parts together from both, and you had a real good solid package.

After quite a few 4 speed cars, I bought a 69 GTO with a T 400, I've gravitated towards automatic equipped cars ever since. I guess the dreaded 2-3 shifter jamb has a good bit to do with me getting away from the manual transmission cars. I had enough grief with blowing up drivetrains with the side step the clutch starts to appreciate how much easier the automatic was on the drivetrain. I may be a slow learner, but after awhile I was no longer lying under the car most weekends repairing carnage done by dump the clutch standing starts.

Even with all the best parts, you could still jamb a shifter on the 2-3 shift, necessitating crawling under the car to unjamb it. It always seemed to happen when I was on a date with good clothes on......


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Old 12-18-2021, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirrotica View Post
Back in the day, the hot setup was to use the factory Pontiac arms, with the Competition Plus shifter, and C/P linkage.

The threaded linkage was much easier to keep in adjustment than the set screw style factory linkage was. The factory arms were shorter from center to center making a shorter throw than the C/P arms. The oilite bushings outlasted the plastic bushings many times over.

The C/P also had superior spring clips to hold the linkage, bushings, and arms together.

Put a drill bit in the shifter body, align the linkage, set the stops, that was the ultimate 4 speed shifter setup in my circle of friends. If you missed a shift with that setup, you better be looking for a car with an automatic.....LOL

The factory shifter was inferior on the set screw linkage, plastic bushings, no stops on the shifter body, lesser quality clips. It was superior on shorter center to center shift arms. Put all the best parts together from both, and you had a real good solid package.

After quite a few 4 speed cars, I bought a 69 GTO with a T 400, I've gravitated towards automatic equipped cars ever since. I guess the dreaded 2-3 shifter jamb has a good bit to do with me getting away from the manual transmission cars. I had enough grief with blowing up drivetrains with the side step the clutch starts to appreciate how much easier the automatic was on the drivetrain. I may be a slow learner, but after awhile I was no longer lying under the car most weekends repairing carnage done by dump the clutch standing starts.

Even with all the best parts, you could still jamb a shifter on the 2-3 shift, necessitating crawling under the car to unjamb it. It always seemed to happen when I was on a date with good clothes on......

Agree 100% on Everything here.
Also this PROVES " I can't get my car outta second Gear" has MORE than one meaning!!
Good friend calls me this summer, just left Walmart to go home in his '74 Formula. He was upset and said, literally " I cant get my car outta second gear"
I just Laughed as I thought for sure he had some Sammy Hagar playing in the car. Nope. He had got into it and tried to "jam" that stock Hurst shifter into 3rd and was STUCK in second gear. So he drives home at 4k RPMs. Quickly reminded him of what do do to remedy the problem. Funny, since that day he has not had ONE problem with it. Same shifter... Different driver LOL....

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Old 01-13-2022, 05:13 PM
GoreMaker GoreMaker is offline
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So here's stuff I've learned on this subject over the last few weeks after wasting a bunch of money on a new Comp Plus aftermarket shifter.

- modern-day Comp Plus shifters are kinda crap and sloppy compared to the originals from the 60s and 70s (both OEM and aftermarket). They're not machined as well. The gates aren't as flat. There's more clearance between the plates. The main housing is made of slightly thinner metal (hence the greater clearance). Because of this increased clearance, there's actually a GREATER chance of getting the shifter stuck in 2nd when shifting to 3rd

- the difference between OEM and aftermarket Hurst shifters basically boils down to the limit bolts (which are nice to protect the transmission during hard shifts) and the bushings used on the shift rods. They're stiff rubber on OEM shifters and hard nylon on aftermarket shifters. The aftermarket shifters have round bushing holes and can accept metal bushings in place of nylon. The OEM shifters have an oddly-shaped bushing hole that only accept the OEM rubber bushings

- there's some minor difference in geometry between OEM and aftermarket shifters that means that aftermarket shifters must use aftermarket rods (part of the installation kit). The rods between the two types are not interchangeable. However, ultimately, the shift throws between OEM and aftermarket shifters are the same when they each use their respective rods, so there's no improvement between the two. I think Hurst purposely made them different to make it more difficult to convert an OEM shifter to aftermarket without giving them lots of extra money.

There's kits available to remove the sloppy clearance on modern aftermarket Comp Plus shifters. It's essentially thicker shims that help tighten up the gate stack. Combined with a bunch of deburring and sanding and cleaning up of the poorly-manufactured parts, you can eventually end up with a shifter that's as good as an original aftermarket unit from the 60s or 70s ...that seems like a giant waste of time and money.

Conversely, if the OEM Hurst shifter is in decent shape, it can easily be modified to have the features of the aftermarket unit while having a much nicer build with way less work and for much less money. You end up improving the shift quality noticeably and get to keep your original, better quality shifter for much less than the HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS that a current aftermarket unit costs. This also makes it much easier to retain the original shift lever since those are often permanently attached to the shifter.

The holes for the limit bolts are present on the OEM shifters, they just need to be drilled out and have threads applied to them. Aftermarket shifter part is on the left, OEM is on the right:





You can either drill for 3/8-24 and then use a tap to thread the metal itself, or if there's concern about those threads not being substantial enough, you could drill the holes out bigger and install press-in nuts from the inside. The way the limit bolts are installed and retained, this method would work perfectly.

As for the shift rod bushings, the bushing holes in the OEM shifter can be drilled to accept steel bushings:


Technically the slots on either side of the hole are still wider than the round holes in the aftermarket shifter. So this wouldn't be a good idea if using Hurst's "Pit Pack" powdered-metal bushings. They're very brittle and might end up breaking because they're not supported all the way around. But if using tool steel metal bushings like this:

https://www.5speeds.com/cart/index.p...&product_id=76

Then it would be fine and the result would be exactly the same as the aftermarket shifter setup.

I think that's the route I'll end up taking. I spent $300 on that new shifter, and I was really unimpressed with what I got. Yes, it's an authentic Hurst shifter, not a cheap knockoff. They're just all poorly made now. It's ironic because they're warning people not to buy the cheap knockoffs due to "poor quality" (their patents expired, so anyone can legally copy them now), yet they're still charging ridiculous prices for unimpressive quality.


Last edited by GoreMaker; 01-13-2022 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 01-13-2022, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoreMaker View Post
I'm finding a lot of conflicting info on this, and most of the info refers to other, older cars anyways.

What were functional differences and benefits between the factory Hurst shifter vs an aftermarket Competition Plus shifter? ...
I am sorry I didn't notice this thread earlier, I could have also spoken up, and possibly swayed you away from buying a new shifter... but maybe the point is moot because you had it in your head that you were going to buy a new shifter anyway...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirrotica View Post
Back in the day, the hot setup was to use the factory Pontiac arms, with the Competition Plus shifter, and C/P linkage.

The threaded linkage was much easier to keep in adjustment than the set screw style factory linkage was. The factory arms were shorter from center to center making a shorter throw than the C/P arms. The oilite bushings outlasted the plastic bushings many times over.

The C/P also had superior spring clips to hold the linkage, bushings, and arms together.

Put a drill bit in the shifter body, align the linkage, set the stops, that was the ultimate 4 speed shifter setup in my circle of friends. If you missed a shift with that setup, you better be looking for a car with an automatic.....LOL

The factory shifter was inferior on the set screw linkage, plastic bushings, no stops on the shifter body, lesser quality clips. It was superior on shorter center to center shift arms. Put all the best parts together from both, and you had a real good solid package.

...
I am not old enough to know what was being done back in the day, but I can attest to this being bang-on.

When I bought my car it came with an aftermarket Hurst CP shifter, complete with chrome stick and the CP white ball.
This is probably because a prior owner found a parts car, and wanted to buy an aftermarket shifter instead of paying a wrecker for the "garbage" factory unit (my car was a three speed car, but as acquired, it had a 1972 Firebird coded M22).

The initial problem that lead me down the "shifter rabbit hole" was that no matter what I did, that CP shifter setup would not accommodate my console;
I didn't notice the problem at first because the console was pretty bbroken up (the backing was busted, not the vinyl), and it was disconnected from the dash - so it was sitting off to one side.
Once I repaired the console, and tried to mount it up properly, I was unable to get to all my gears with things apparently proper.
So, off to eBay I bought a factory shifter setup from a 79 car (complete with chrome stick, shift knob and all the linkage);
Skipping ahead a bit, I ended up taking both shifters apart, putting the shift selector arm (which the chrome stick connects to) from the factory shifter into the aftermarket shifter;
I then ended up mixing and matching linkage to get the best and most solid feel for shifts.

I essentially had an aftermarket shifter that was posing as a factory shifter.

As to differences, somewhere after 1970 the factory shifters had gear selectors that had rubber bushings - I didn't like those because they tended to make shifts mushy no matter how much care you spent getting shift rods set;
I never cared, or worried too much about the positive stops - and frankly I cannot clearly recall if I ever touched mine.

Boiled down the differences between a factory or aftermarket Competition plus would be:
1) presence or absence of positive stops; aftermarket has them, factory does not.
2) shift selector; factory used a push in style, while aftermarket used a bolt on style chrome stick
3) gear selectors; factory had* provisions for rubber slotted bushings while aftermarket used a hard plastic or brass bushing (*= early factory shifters did not have this feature)
3b) shift linkage; aftermarket linkage was thinner and had a different style thread lock for adjustment.

It is interesting to read that the new aftermarket isn't as good as it used to be.

I just looked for my shifter, I was going to do a side by side picture, but then I realized I lent it to my brother! (I'm going to have to remember to get it back!)

I have both versions of the factory shifter here, as well as factory and C/P linkage incase you are interested in seeing something in specific.

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Old 01-14-2022, 11:38 AM
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When I switched my Camaro to a stick car with the SBC when I autocrossed it bough a complete pedal.shifter trans bellhousing from a guy with a '80 Z28 going to an auto. It had an ITM shifter. Although I put my old Mr Gasket Vertigate in the Camaro.

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