[300deluxe]

Ad said bought new by my father...did the father die and the son is selling?

[Pepper Judge]

1 of the (25 or 26) Canadian Lemans based "The Jury" dealer option cars for sale in BC, available at his link:



https://www.kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars...ury/1602094428

Seems to be the same car discussed previously on PY.

350, 4 speed M21 (originally M20 on data plate?) and a 390 rear, post car (post / coupe dash and all). 1969 Judge rear spoiler.

Data plate does not state "MADE IN CANADA" like other 70 Oshawa built Lemans but instead shows OS as opposed to a 1 .

Palladium Silver code 14, with a blue bench interior code 241

Not certain it is all original as indicated but a cool ride nonetheless with a $72,000 Canadian ($57,000 USD) price tag, or something close, required to ad it to your collection.

[unruhjonny]

it's a neat car, but I'd wager it would have to be the right Canadian who might be a the target audience - as the only real thing going for it is the 'Canadiana';
I can't see the average American buyer being willing to pay GTO Judge premium for such a niche car.

[nas t eh]

not a fan, don't care how rare. 350ci kills it.

[unruhjonny]

/\ exactly my point.
This car's target buyer is someone willing to pay a premium for a piece of Canadiana... and then hopefully the aftermarket junk will be taken off!
lol

[nas t eh]

Sorry it's worse than that for me, This car's target buyer is an idiot. Why buy something just because it is rare or unique. Buy something that is good first, then rare and unique. At $10,000 sure, but not at $30-40,000 or any higher when so much else can be found for the money.

[unruhjonny]

what's the saying "there 's an idiot born every day"?
This guy has to be fishing for an idiot - lol

[scott70]

What would be more desireable,,,,a GT37 ,,350 4 speed or a Jury?

['ol Pinion head]

Originally Posted by scott70

What would be more desireable,,,,a GT37 ,,350 4 speed or a Jury?

from my experience, it would be a tossup. personally don't like "The Jury" stripe/logo setup & the single muffler standard equip thing. '70 1/2 GT-37 would have come standard with its big brother GTO's G70-14's as well as twin splitter dual exhaust system. That & more subtle graphics, both huge pluses.

Most desirable in a lower level Pontiac A-body in late '70 would be a solid straight clean interior orig 400 WT engine, M13 or M20 GT-37 in a desirable color.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by scott70

What would be more desireable,,,,a GT37 ,,350 4 speed or a Jury?

for me, the two have the same drivetrain, so Stampede Pontiac (my home town) 'Jury' wins out.

If the car was a 400/4spd or a 400/3spd GT37, I'd rather either of those.

[nas t eh]

Originally Posted by scott70

What would be more desireable,,,,a GT37 ,,350 4 speed or a Jury?

Neither, stupid discussion and you would not pay $30,000+ for either one.

[F ROCK]

I think it's pretty cool, but not for that money.

Questions;
Single exhaust or dual?
Is it really 3.90:1 gears?
2bbl, logs, and 3.90's; how well would that run?
350, 2bbl with 12bolt? I see the order slip posted has 8.2 rear but i thought i'd read about 12 bolt as well?

One time, I temporarily installed a stock 1970 350 2bbl in my GTO; with logs, dual exhaust and 3.08 gears; it ran great.
Then I installed a 4.10 rear in there; and the car couldnt go 60 mph. felt like it couldnt breathe.

[Douglas Willinger]

I don't understand who ever thought that a 350 2bll with steep gears was somehow a good idea?

The Jury ought to have been at least the WT 400 with the Ram AIr III "12" heads, or simply a WS Ram AIr III. What true cost savings were there with a 350 2bbl? Production costs were about the same.

If one likes the Jury look, then find a 2 door post Tempest Lemans and build one with one of the 400s, or even a McCarthy or DCI RAV.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by Douglas Willinger

I don't understand ...

If one likes the Jury look, then find a 2 door post Tempest Lemans and build ...

The same could be said for crazy Judge prices, buy another car and build a Judge;
This is a low volume special dealer car;
I have to believe that you DO understand this, and that you are just flogging a dead horse here.

Two posts worth repeating, just incase you have missed it:

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

... This car's target buyer is someone willing to pay a premium for a piece of Canadiana...

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

... (the) Most desirable in a lower level Pontiac A-body in late '70 would be a solid straight clean interior orig 400 WT engine, M13 or M20 GT-37 in a desirable color.

[Douglas Willinger]

I don't understand the selection of the 350 2bbl. Almost certainly due to excessive insurance surcharges, even on the more door intermediates as the 350 accounts for perhaps 98% of all factory installations.

Was not questioning the rarity of the car.

Wonder how many out there missing their original drivetrain?

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

The same could be said for crazy Judge prices, buy another car and build a Judge;
This is a low volume special dealer car;
I have to believe that you DO understand this, and that you are just flogging a dead horse here.

Two posts worth repeating, just incase you have missed it:

[unruhjonny]

I would guess that the 350 was selected, then teamed up with 3.90's to make a car that would launch from a stop light spectacularly;
Those appear to have been super cheap cars - probably put together to create dealership activity.

Here is another link about these cars:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=454137

[unruhjonny]

I just found a period article hosted on anther forum - it's worth sharing:




The following quote is from near the end of page 1:

... The acceleration is quite strong and the car is extreemly lively around town. This is only with a 2 barrel carburetor! Most of the lively feeling is due to the low gear ratio. The ratio is perhaps even lower than need be. For you can burn rubber with ease starting in second gear as well as break the tires loose in all four gears. ...

So it might not have driven as bad as some have speculated.

I actually prefer the 1970 black spoiler, and slightly different decaling.

[F ROCK]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

I just found a period article hosted on anther forum - it's worth sharing:




The following quote is from near the end of page 1:


So it might not have driven as bad as some have speculated.

I actually prefer the 1970 black spoiler, and slightly different decaling.

Thanks for posting the article.
I really like this car.
350 2bbl, 4 speed, single exhaust 4.11 gears lol. It probably would have been good enough w/ 3.55's?
my 1970 2bbl 350 with #11 heads was quite peppy. I should've kept that engine but i passed it on to someone else who needed it.
I like the silver paint and stripes too.
Hood pins are a nice touch; someone might steal that 2bbl. lol. i like hood pins.
This must've been a pretty fun car for buzzing around town. I doubt i could drive it very far w/ 4.11's.
At over 4K it was pretty pricey for the day, no?

[unruhjonny]

keep in mind that was Canadian dollars - I am not sure how that translated to 1970 USA-dollars, but I have no doubt it was a fair share cheaper than a GTO, and would have presumably had some of the flash of a GTO.

I have reached out to the individual who shared that article that I might be able to find another copy of it, or get a high resolution scan of it - he appears to be in my city.
Hopefully I will hear back from him.