Pontiac - Boost Turbo, supercharged, Nitrous, EFI & other Power Adders discussed here.

          
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  #21  
Old 02-21-2019, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by TransAm 474 View Post
I appreciate your input, I have watched all of your videos on youtube, you have a badass car for sure. Its pretty rare to come across many true turbocharged pontiac street car videos on YouTube. In all honesty, I would probably be plenty satisfied with the S475, but I thought I might go ahead and go with the S480 so that I have some room to grow down the road along with a forged crank if I want too. It seems your S475 doesn't have a problem whatsoever with spool. I'm assuming the S480 wouldn't have either, because my car has plenty of power to shred the tires now without boost, so it really shouldn't have a problem with lag I wouldnt think. Thank You for sharing your thoughts.
The S480 will spool very fast too. Thanks for the complements on my car, I wish I took more videos. I did some cool test passes and my buddy was supposed to be recording, dope forgot to hit the record button!
The Fi Tech and holley super sniper work well with boost. I am leaning towards one of those sets ups. Can't beat them for the money. I like the holley since you can use there program on a laptop. Steve Morris sets them up for your specific engine and sells them to you also.
Good idea to leave room to grow.

  #22  
Old 02-21-2019, 11:26 PM
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The S480 will spool very fast too. Thanks for the complements on my car, I wish I took more videos. I did some cool test passes and my buddy was supposed to be recording, dope forgot to hit the record button!
The Fi Tech and holley super sniper work well with boost. I am leaning towards one of those sets ups. Can't beat them for the money. I like the holley since you can use there program on a laptop. Steve Morris sets them up for your specific engine and sells them to you also.
Good idea to leave room to grow.
You are welcome, I saw Steve offers the Holley that includes a baseline tune. My dad owns two of the Fitech systems, one of the 30004 600 Power Adder, he runs it on a 383 sbc with a Magnuson 122 roots supercharger in a 1985 Chvrolet long bed pickup, and his other unit is the 30012 1200 Power Adder that he runs on a 383 as well, but uses it as a blowthrough with a D1SC Procharger in his 1986 Trans Am. I set both of them up for him, because I'm a bit more computer savy than he is Lol.... but they really work good so far, he really likes them alot. Both applications had carbs on them in the before the switch, and the Cold Starts and Throttle Response are WAAYAYY better with the Fitech systems. I was quite surprised how easy they were to get up and running and how fast they start self learning on the initial startup. It takes a bit of trial and error to get the Crank Fuel, Afterstart, and WarmUp fuel dialed in for Cold and Hot Starts, but once you get that good, the rest is self learning basically. Both systems are used to control Fuel only, and control our timing system separate with an MSD 6AL-2 Programmable. Thats exactly how I'm going to set my own car up with my 1200 Power Adder and the combination I'm wanting to do here with the turbo.

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  #23  
Old 02-22-2019, 10:23 AM
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Turbo builds like wide LSA.

Or, perhaps, they like to have the exhaust valve open sooner.

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  #24  
Old 02-22-2019, 12:31 PM
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Or, perhaps, they like to have the exhaust valve open sooner.
Yes it is a combo of things, also helps spool

  #25  
Old 02-22-2019, 06:48 PM
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One thing to take into account with the Holley Sniper systems is that they can run only a maximum of around 16 psi of boost, ok if you have a well built big engine with very good heads-but not much good if you have a smaller engine with average heads. I had this discussion with Steve Morris as I had intended using a Sniper 4500 unit on my 400 combo at 25 psi of boost, he said it will only accurately meter fuel to 16 psi boost, above that and you're off the fuel map,running on a wing and a prayer effectively.

  #26  
Old 02-22-2019, 09:11 PM
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One thing to take into account with the Holley Sniper systems is that they can run only a maximum of around 16 psi of boost, ok if you have a well built big engine with very good heads-but not much good if you have a smaller engine with average heads. I had this discussion with Steve Morris as I had intended using a Sniper 4500 unit on my 400 combo at 25 psi of boost, he said it will only accurately meter fuel to 16 psi boost, above that and you're off the fuel map,running on a wing and a prayer effectively.
I thought the super sniper was good for 2.5 bar?

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel.../parts/550-512

Look at the spec sheet

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Old 02-22-2019, 09:13 PM
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I know someone running the FI Tech 25 psi no issue

  #28  
Old 02-23-2019, 05:41 PM
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I can only say what Steve Morris told me, these were his words- 'Hey Pual,
I noticed going over your engine info that your running 25PSI of boost.
That's going to be a bit high. The MAP sensor in the sniper is totally
fine to use but typically you start running out of injector around
16PSI. At 25 you will most definitely starve it for fuel. And after I questioned this (why would the system have a 2.5 bar MAP sensor if that is the case? And why do Holley say that an external 3 bar MAP sensor can be used if the system can't run enough fuel for that boost pressure?) ,his reply - 'So the sniper software has a fuel map for volumetric efficiency and flow
rate. These 2 fuel maps max out at 16 psi. So beyond that the sniper is
running into an un-mapped area so it will be relying off of the last
mapped number on the graph and the o2 sensors to try and correct it
regardless of boost level. Its not the most ideal place to run it.

  #29  
Old 02-23-2019, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by taff2 View Post
I can only say what Steve Morris told me, these were his words- 'Hey Pual,
I noticed going over your engine info that your running 25PSI of boost.
That's going to be a bit high. The MAP sensor in the sniper is totally
fine to use but typically you start running out of injector around
16PSI. At 25 you will most definitely starve it for fuel. And after I questioned this (why would the system have a 2.5 bar MAP sensor if that is the case? And why do Holley say that an external 3 bar MAP sensor can be used if the system can't run enough fuel for that boost pressure?) ,his reply - 'So the sniper software has a fuel map for volumetric efficiency and flow
rate. These 2 fuel maps max out at 16 psi. So beyond that the sniper is
running into an un-mapped area so it will be relying off of the last
mapped number on the graph and the o2 sensors to try and correct it
regardless of boost level. Its not the most ideal place to run it.
Thanks Taff that makes sense. At 16 psi I bet i would be at the top end of the injectors anyway

  #30  
Old 02-23-2019, 10:33 PM
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I called FI Tech a couple of years ago about the 1200 PA series. I told them I would like to make 1200+ with it. The tech told me that I will be lucky to get 1000 hp out of it and that is on gas. He said that the 1200 rating was on NA setup. But now I see that they changed their ratings. I'm running an E85 BT carb when I got my engine dyno.

  #31  
Old 02-23-2019, 10:48 PM
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Just to add, there are people over on the "Fitech Owners Group" Facebook page and "Fitech EFI Users" Facebook page that have had success increasing the injectors size so they will support more power as well.

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  #32  
Old 02-24-2019, 08:50 AM
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Both FI and Holley are exaggerating the power capabilities of these power adder systems, neither have enough injector capacity to make 1200hp, I've checked quite a few injector calculators and even entering a very low bsfc of .50 (usually n/a combos) and a very high 95% duty cycle-these systems still fall short. It's a shame ,because the Stealth 4500 (Domi style) system would make a great blow through turbo combo if it could produce more power -say around 1500hp - as it has built in datalogging,traction control, ignition control,afr/boost/temp safety settings etc, and no complicated wiring set up either. Introducing the fuel higher up in the intake is also beneficial to charge cooling and more power than comparable port injection IMO.

  #33  
Old 02-24-2019, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taff2 View Post
Both FI and Holley are exaggerating the power capabilities of these power adder systems, neither have enough injector capacity to make 1200hp, I've checked quite a few injector calculators and even entering a very low bsfc of .50 (usually n/a combos) and a very high 95% duty cycle-these systems still fall short. It's a shame ,because the Stealth 4500 (Domi style) system would make a great blow through turbo combo if it could produce more power -say around 1500hp - as it has built in datalogging,traction control, ignition control,afr/boost/temp safety settings etc, and no complicated wiring set up either. Introducing the fuel higher up in the intake is also beneficial to charge cooling and more power than comparable port injection IMO.
I agree they are a bit exaggerated on the power limit, but they work well for a street car that has around 1000 horsepower or less. My calculations say that it takes (8) 74lb injectors at 43.5 psi to support 1000 horsepower running them at 85% duty cycle in a Forced Induction application. The 1200 Power Adder Fitech has (8) 74lb injectors, but they advertise them (8) 80lb since the Fitech units run at 58psi instead of 43.5 psi, so they will flow 80lb/hr. They should be good for around 1090 horsepower in a forced induction application running at 58psi.

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  #34  
Old 02-24-2019, 11:22 AM
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To support an honest 1200 horsepower, it would take (8) 88lb injectors at 43.5 psi, so at 58 psi that the Fitech runs at, you could probably squeeze by with (8) 82lb injectors.

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  #35  
Old 02-24-2019, 01:32 PM
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Not sure about that deal, TransAm 474.
Years ago several racers were going from 43 psi to 68 psi and only picking up a couple of lbs/hr mass flow thru the injector.
The injectors were set for 85% Duty Cycle.

Once you get over 85% Duty Cycle on an injector you are playing Russian Roulette with the Injector Flow Rates.
People who try to run in the low 90s need to spend their money on better flowing injectors vs possibly destroying engine parts,
(that wasted money could have been used to buy several sets of higher flow injectors).

Tom V.

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  #36  
Old 02-24-2019, 01:42 PM
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They have 100lb injectors in the holley already I thought.

  #37  
Old 02-24-2019, 06:12 PM
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My calc says 1200hp would need 8 x 116lb injectors at 43 psi fuel pressure with bsfc at .65 and inj. duty at 85%.

  #38  
Old 02-24-2019, 07:08 PM
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My calc says 1200hp would need 8 x 116lb injectors at 43 psi fuel pressure with bsfc at .65 and inj. duty at 85%.
AGREE!

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  #39  
Old 02-24-2019, 07:22 PM
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I be in this section in a few more months I am going to try and get a turbo motor built. I notice that fast has 220lbs injectors they say these injector can handle 3500 HP.
https://www.fuelairspark.com/8-fastt...-injector.html

  #40  
Old 02-24-2019, 08:04 PM
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I definitely would agree with yall, since I'm not an expert at this... I was just going by this calculator, but it very well may be incorrect

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...jMQt5H9phj-knZ

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