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Old 11-10-2021, 11:43 AM
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Default Front Sway Bar--Reinforcement???

I read some previous front sway bar threads and they seem to focus on the 1&1/4” bar and the need for reinforced mounting, e.g. nutserts, etc.

I’m putting a 1&1/8” OEM bar on a 64 GTO replacing the original 15/16” bar.

Questions: Will this larger bar require nutserts or equivalent? OR, since everything is still apart play it safe and install nutserts?

The bar is from a 70 GTO but I didn’t have access to the frame to see what type factory mounting was used.

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Old 11-10-2021, 12:33 PM
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Depends on how the car is going to be driven and what type of tires it has on it.

This becomes an issue more in performance driving situations like auto-x and when sticky tires capable of generating more grip are concerned.

If you're adding the bar to a near stock chassis and continuing to utilize basic street type tires, it's probably not necessary.

If you intent to really hammer on the car a lot and use sticky rubber, I'd probably go ahead and do it.

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Old 11-18-2021, 05:34 PM
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You will notice a difference with the bigger bar.. I would use it, no sense spending money on parts you dont need.. The end links do the work. They make some real slick end links today but I would just use the polys..

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Old 12-14-2021, 02:06 PM
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PTFB makes a brace that goes between the bar and the frame horns that helps prevent ripping out the bolts, works on both A and F bodies.

http://pro-touringf-body.com/chassis_components.html

If you have it apart, and easy access, it makes sense to install nut-serts. Use only steel ones, and you have to buy the large type insert tools.

Some use a plate with 2 nuts welded to it, slipped into the frame from the front, which is a good option too, but you may have trouble lining it up on install. Once installed, it's good.

.

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Old 12-14-2021, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HWYSTR455 View Post
I am not seeing how this bar stops sway bar mounts from tearing out.

Originally these were used in 1982-92 F's as when GM stepped up to large sticky tires (IROC, 1LE's) they had deformation issues in parking lots of all things!

I tried the 2 bolts welded to a bar inside the frame on my 71 - difficulty with steering box bolts stopped that, along with the 2 frame halves making the mount uneven and went to nutserts. That, and the bolt spacing of the straps makes nuts difficult with large bars - you need Allen headed bolts to fit.


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Old 12-14-2021, 05:39 PM
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64-3Deuces 64-3Deuces is offline
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Thanks for the info guys. The frame is off the car and totally bare so I have easy access to try the various methods suggested.

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Old 12-14-2021, 05:46 PM
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I used large hex nuts inside the frame using the factory bolts for attaching the 1.25” F-body bar on both of my ‘64 A-body cars.

The hex size was 11/16” or maybe 17mm, I’ve forgotten whether the factory F-body hardware had metric or SAE threads. Either way the nuts weren’t too hard to place with the front bumper and brackets removed. One sits close to a steering box bolt but worked out fine. That large hex acts as a washer to keep from pulling through.

The nuts can be held in place with body dumdum.

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Old 12-14-2021, 08:55 PM
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b-man--sounds good. As I noted everything is apart so your method is something I will look at...Thanks...

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Old 12-15-2021, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarebird View Post
I am not seeing how this bar stops sway bar mounts from tearing out.

Originally these were used in 1982-92 F's as when GM stepped up to large sticky tires (IROC, 1LE's) they had deformation issues in parking lots of all things!

I tried the 2 bolts welded to a bar inside the frame on my 71 - difficulty with steering box bolts stopped that, along with the 2 frame halves making the mount uneven and went to nutserts. That, and the bolt spacing of the straps makes nuts difficult with large bars - you need Allen headed bolts to fit.


Yeah, those bars help limit longitudinal twist of the frame. The sway bar doesn't provide that, since it can move side to side in the bushings. The frame horns can move however they want wo the brace bar. The part description even mentions it helps prevent stripping threads.

When the frame twists, it can put load on individual opposing sway bar bolts.


.

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  #10  
Old 12-15-2021, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HWYSTR455 View Post
Yeah, those bars help limit longitudinal twist of the frame. The sway bar doesn't provide that, since it can move side to side in the bushings. The frame horns can move however they want wo the brace bar. The part description even mentions it helps prevent stripping threads.

When the frame twists, it can put load on individual opposing sway bar bolts.


.
I built one of these for my 66 to tie the front frame rails together since I do not run a sway bar. Before install I could see the frame moving/twisting when someone would turn the tires while the car sat still.
After install big difference. Plus the fact that it drove better at 135mph at the track. I was skeptical at first but it was a huge improvement that I could actually feel.

They are on all my GTO's and my T/A now.
That is good price on that one.

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  #11  
Old 12-15-2021, 10:36 AM
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They certainly help.

If you remember and look at the Herb Adams Cheverra, the Fire Ams, and his early racer, they tied the front together with a welded in tube. Drastically made a difference.

http://pontiacformula.free.fr/en/fire_am.php

https://www.motortrend.com/features/chevy-vse-cheverra/

Cowl 'shake' and deflection was another biggie, and everyone copies his 'structural supports' design.

Adams was the suspension guy for the Trans Am, so my guess would be he's the man to listen to regarding GM F-body suspensions. He also would be great to listen to on 64-80 A bodies.

.

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  #12  
Old 12-17-2021, 08:40 PM
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If you have a good frame, the NUTSERTS work very well with just a drilling operation.
And the NUTSERT tools are NOT that expensive for the improvement.

I have helped probably 10 guys with installing NUTSERTS on their frames, for the cost of a Breakfast at a restaurant.

Tom V.

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  #13  
Old 12-27-2021, 01:39 AM
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Brace has to help the main problem with the large bar, and that is the frame flexing. On my '67 GTO I could see the fenders move around on spirited cornering after installing the aftermarket bar. Swear that I had as much body roll as before except now the frame and fenders were involved. Just very little rigidity to the front of those A-body frames.

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