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Old 01-01-2022, 11:46 PM
Andy70RA3 Andy70RA3 is offline
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Default 70 TA auto trans PQ tag

I have seen black and yellow PQ transmission tags. My original to my 70 RAIII TA auto trans {numbers match} has a PQ tag that appears was yellow. What was the black PQ tags used on? Thanks, Andy
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Old 01-02-2022, 11:47 AM
SD455DJ SD455DJ is online now
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Here is my 'Black' PQ TH400 tag from my '70 RAIII Formula. This is on a Norwood 04D build Firebird.

Dennis
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Old 01-02-2022, 02:34 PM
poncho-mike poncho-mike is offline
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On the yellow tag, there are four digits on the bottom left of the tag. Is this a date code? If so, the date code is 2339, which would be late 1969.

On the black tag, the four digits are 1343, which would mean this could be a replacement transmission.

Can someone enlighten me as to what the four digits are?

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Old 01-02-2022, 03:39 PM
SD455DJ SD455DJ is online now
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It looks like the 4 numbers are not date codes, but production sequence at the Hydramatic plants. My PQ TH400 trans is the original numbers to the car with original '5-5' furnace brazed torque convertor, vacuum modulator, and the turquoise "PQ" paint stamp on the bellhousing.

The following is a quote from Mike Ransom (Held for Ransom) regarding PQ tag colors...they aren't gospel, so Yellow probably was a carry over color from '69 into '70 at the plant.

"I've found most years are color specific. I don't know when or why they changed to a pink tag in '70, as most are a black background."

Checked my notes and you guys are right...
'69 PQ Yellow
'70 PQ Black, then Pink.
'71 PQ Blue
'72 PQ Yellow
'73 PQ Pink
'74 PQ Blue

"The serializing, I can't comment on."

I hope this helps...

Dennis
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Old 01-02-2022, 05:08 PM
Ramairnacho Ramairnacho is offline
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Default Pq tag

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy70RA3 View Post
I have seen black and yellow PQ transmission tags. My original to my 70 RAIII TA auto trans {numbers match} has a PQ tag that appears was yellow. What was the black PQ tags used on? Thanks, Andy
I look this pic of my 70 Ra3 auto formula my car assembled in 1 st week of match Norwood ohio. Is it possible Ohio black, California yellow?
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Old 01-02-2022, 05:16 PM
Andy70RA3 Andy70RA3 is offline
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This is why I love to read the PY Forums, so MUCH to learn. I'd like to get more thoughts on this. My Trans Am is a 6C Norwood car. With the info from Mr. Ransom, it really seems doubtful my tag started out as yellow. Could my tag originally have been black but whatever chemicals came in contact with it over the years turned it from black to this, whatever color it is...OR...should I consider that it was actually pink to begin with?? {I was not even aware that they were indeed pink at all} Thanks, Andy

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Old 01-02-2022, 05:36 PM
Ramairnacho Ramairnacho is offline
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Default Replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by poncho-mike View Post
On the yellow tag, there are four digits on the bottom left of the tag. Is this a date code? If so, the date code is 2339, which would be late 1969.

On the black tag, the four digits are 1343, which would mean this could be a replacement transmission.

Can someone enlighten me as to what the four digits are?
Well there goes that Idea. But black being replacement. Hmm got min. I believe mine is original and going to rebuild it or upgrade with overdrive and shelf it. But being a replacement is bad news. And what about pink? Lol

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Old 01-02-2022, 05:40 PM
Ramairnacho Ramairnacho is offline
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Default Black vs pink

Quote:
Originally Posted by poncho-mike View Post
On the yellow tag, there are four digits on the bottom left of the tag. Is this a date code? If so, the date code is 2339, which would be late 1969.

On the black tag, the four digits are 1343, which would mean this could be a replacement transmission.

Can someone enlighten me as to what the four digits are?
Well there goes that Idea. But black being replacement. Hmm got min. I believe mine is original and going to rebuild it or upgrade with overdrive and shelf it. But being a replacement is bad news. And what about pink? In the authors original there is pink color in the middle of Idtag. I need to find my vin stamp. Will check when I return. Hope I helped but now I'm wondering about my tranny

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Old 01-02-2022, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy70RA3 View Post
This is why I love to read the PY Forums, so MUCH to learn. I'd like to get more thoughts on this. My Trans Am is a 6C Norwood car. With the info from Mr. Ransom, it really seems doubtful my tag started out as yellow. Could my tag originally have been black but whatever chemicals came in contact with it over the years turned it from black to this, whatever color it is...OR...should I consider that it was actually pink to begin with?? {I was not even aware that they were indeed pink at all} Thanks, Andy
Andy, The pic of your PQ tag looks like it was pink that faded to orangy pink...

Dennis

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Old 01-02-2022, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramairnacho View Post
Well there goes that Idea. But black being replacement. Hmm got min. I believe mine is original and going to rebuild it or upgrade with overdrive and shelf it. But being a replacement is bad news. And what about pink? Lol
Ramairnacho, Black tags do not mean a replacement transmission. Your trans is original if the VIN stamp is the same as your Birds...which it probably is.

Dennis

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Old 01-02-2022, 05:58 PM
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Interesting that Ramairnacho's TH400's sequence number (1255) is 88 units ahead of mine (1343), his Formula is 03A built where mine is 04D (6-7 week difference). The PQ trans was for both TA & RAIII Formulas, so 12 - 14 per week rolled out of the Norwood plant in 1970...so roughly 1 RAIII/TH400 Formula for every 4-5 TH400 TA's during that particular stretch...interesting.

Dennis


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Old 01-02-2022, 06:10 PM
Ramairnacho Ramairnacho is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD455DJ View Post
Interesting that Ramairnacho's TH400's sequence number (1255) is 88 units ahead of mine (1343), his Formula is 03A built where mine is 04D (6-7 week difference). The PQ trans was for both TA & RAIII Formulas, so 12 - 14 per week rolled out of the Norwood plant in 1970...so roughly 1 RAIII/TH400 Formula for every 6-7 TH400 TA's during that particular stretch...interesting.

Dennis
I agree Andy you have a pink tag. The centervis pink. And I'm glad mine is original. So for ever 1 Formula ra3 they made 6 or 7 Trans am . Hmm. They only made 293 of them not sure why . Don't we need more number for your sequence Denis? My block date 0a07 and heads a280. Same gap on engine too? If your right I'm guessing your block 0b24 and heads c050. Hmm

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Old 01-02-2022, 06:28 PM
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RAN, I don't think all numbers (casting, etc.) are linear like that. My engine casting numbers are follows: heads - D100/D140; intake - C100; block - D060; RA manifolds - D080/D090; carb - 0570; distributor - 9G 3, alternator - 0B23. My EUN on the block is 0515578.

Oh, I edited/corrected my response to say 1 RAIII Formula for every 4-5 TA's (RAIII/TH400's).

Dennis

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Old 01-02-2022, 06:58 PM
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Default Pq

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Originally Posted by SD455DJ View Post
RAN, I don't think all numbers (casting, etc.) are linear like that. My engine casting numbers are follows: heads - D100/D140; intake - C100; block - D060; RA manifolds - D080/D090; carb - 0570; distributor - 9G 3, alternator - 0B23. My EUN on the block is 0515578.

Oh, I edited/corrected my response to say 1 RAIII Formula for every 4-5 TA's (RAIII/TH400's).

Dennis
We we can conclude the tranny only. My distributor is a g too, I read that most are. Looks like block.cast close to assembly and mine sat for 2 months that's weird. Hmmm at least we helped solve the pink mystery.!

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Old 01-02-2022, 09:11 PM
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FYI all THM 400s were built in the Willow Run, MI Hydra-matic plant. When assembled a PQ trans did not know if it was going to Norwood or Van Nuys (or Pontiac, Fremont, Baltimore, etc A-car plants). They got loaded on racks and shipped by box car to final assembly. Numerical order would depend on how the racks were loaded, unloaded and then pulled for use on the line. I’d suggest that numerical order is generally correct but not absolute.

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Old 01-02-2022, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD455DJ View Post
Andy, The pic of your PQ tag looks like it was pink that faded to orangy pink...

Dennis
Yep - that's what it looks like to me as well. Started out pink, and then faded or got exposed to heat or a chemical that turned its color. You can see the pink in the center.

My 06D Norwood TA w TH400 has the pink PQ tag.

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Old 01-02-2022, 11:05 PM
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Keith, do you have a good pic of your pink tag?

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Old 01-05-2022, 10:59 PM
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Keith, do you have a good pic of your pink tag?
Unfortunately, no. I restored the car back in the '90s. I just went through my shoe box of disassembly pictures to see if I'd taken one that showed the tag, and no luck. The car's in winter storage and not accessible right now...

I did find a picture of the stencil-painted turquoise PQ letters on the case, though

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Old 02-02-2022, 11:33 PM
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There's a white '70 T/A on eBay right now that has a pink PQ tag in what appears to be fairly original condition / color. Norwood car that was produced in late June or early July 70.
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Old 02-03-2022, 12:15 AM
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First '70 YZ- PQ drivetrain I owned was in the '80's, out of VN built T/A. Original pink tag PQ turbo 400. Block & #12 heads were cast in late May of '70.

Original '71 PR-PT-PQ Turbo400 tags are silscreened a turquoise color.

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