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#61
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Quote:
Reason why the dynos don't even care what happens below 4,000 RPM but who REALLY Drives ABOVE 4,000 RPM for longer than 15 seconds? Yup, overbuilding "happens" And after all that, the HP is only a estimation, even on a dyno...... How many folks have switched out their Torque converters for Horsepower converters?
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"The Future Belongs to those who are STILL Willing to get their Hands Dirty" .. my Grandfather Last edited by Formulabruce; 01-18-2022 at 07:44 PM. |
#62
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The 4" stroke has plenty of low end torque for any street car.
I think it would be a lot easier on the stock drivetrain the OP is running.
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66 GTO Nostalgia Super Stock/Street Legal Car 421 CID, stock block, Wenzler Intake, 2- Carter 750 AFB's, 3.90 Gears, Full Factory Interior, Full Exhaust, Stock Suspension 3750LBS 9.77@136.99 Multiple NSCA/NMCA World Champion 66 GTO 389 3x2, 4 speed, 4.33 gear, Montero Red 33K original Miles 67 GTO 2dr Post, 428, Tri Power, 3.55 Gears 80 Trans Am Black SE Y84 W72 WS6 |
The Following User Says Thank You to Mike Davis For This Useful Post: | ||
#63
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2X on 4in.Tom
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#64
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My Point is just why have max power where you do NOT use it. For a street engine this makes no sense, and costs more money.
Fact>> In this "street" section people get "influenced" into a DRAG built engine.., and FEW actually do drag race. I have met many people that say they "wished they had Not built their motor at 11:1" or solid lifters, or forged pistons, etc.. On the Street DRIVEAVILITY is Job #1 I am all about "excitement" but I wouldn't put a 9 ton AC system in a house that only needs a 3 ton system.... just to say my house has "This" . Maybe it is just about bragging rites ??
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"The Future Belongs to those who are STILL Willing to get their Hands Dirty" .. my Grandfather |
#65
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it cost no more to build a 4" stroke than a 4.25.
Killing a little bottom end of a stock suspension street car is not a bad thing. Easier on ALL drivetrain parts. No one is telling the guy to put a solid roller or 11:1 comp. I guarantee the OP would not be able to tell much difference in driving the 2 on the street.
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66 GTO Nostalgia Super Stock/Street Legal Car 421 CID, stock block, Wenzler Intake, 2- Carter 750 AFB's, 3.90 Gears, Full Factory Interior, Full Exhaust, Stock Suspension 3750LBS 9.77@136.99 Multiple NSCA/NMCA World Champion 66 GTO 389 3x2, 4 speed, 4.33 gear, Montero Red 33K original Miles 67 GTO 2dr Post, 428, Tri Power, 3.55 Gears 80 Trans Am Black SE Y84 W72 WS6 |
#66
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From what I can tell, the 4.25 kits are a little more prevalent and cost about $500 less than the 4.00 kits. Not a huge amount in the scheme of what this will likely cost on the whole, but worth thinking through the benefits/drawbacks since I'm starting from scratch.
I chatted with a local Pontiac builder yesterday about what I want from the engine. He walked me back from a stroker at the start of the convo but by the end of it he was thinking the torque of a 4.25 stroker would be a good match for what I use the car for, which is mostly around town lower RPM driving and hot rodding here and there. That said, I got a big box of parts from KRE today including the $450 cam I was waiting 3 months for - that will be too small for a 472. I suspect I'd want a different cam for a 4" stroker too? Save $500 by getting a 4.25 stroker kit, spend $500 on a new cam that works with the bigger cubes. The most economical path here is building a 400 again, but what fun is that?
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Ken '68 GTO - Ram Air II 464 - 236/242 roller - 9.5” TSP converter - 3.55 posi (build thread | walk around) '95 Comp T/A #6 M6 - bone stock (pics) Last edited by Verdoro 68; 01-19-2022 at 06:39 PM. |
#67
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If you had your choice would you put a 400 428 or 455 in it that will give you the answer your looking for. Don’t forget 494 so you got a lot of choices starting from scratch you can do any of them with your block.
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#68
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All things considered, I'd build a RAII-headed 428 for no other reason than parts were available in '68. Sort of a one of none fantasy build if I raided the parts counter in '68. With Pandora's box opened and now looking at my options to solve gripes I had with previous incarnations of the car, I keep having to remind myself this project came about because of the heads.
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Ken '68 GTO - Ram Air II 464 - 236/242 roller - 9.5” TSP converter - 3.55 posi (build thread | walk around) '95 Comp T/A #6 M6 - bone stock (pics) |
#69
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Mikes Reply:
From my reading over the last 10 years building a 1979 Pontiac TA with a 1967 Pontiac 428 ci HO YK code with Tri-power set-up this: Cam with 1.5" Rocker arms should be under .500" lift, so with your 1.6" RA a pocket could be made into the spring area where the spring seats on the Heads. This depends on the pressure of the springs you're using and this should be determined in the Engine build plan at the start. The Exhaust seats should at least be machined to accept the positive seal and the Intake as well I installed seals too, for no oil leak. If there is such a thing as using oversized Main Bearings on each Crank and rod bearings to get the specs back to factory would help to get rid of the Timing Chain being .005" out of tolerance with associated problems that were raised when using the wrong fix to begin with. Redo the Valve Guides by specking out the Valves diameter vs the Head Bore that the Guides rest in, new technology indicates that the valves are cooled through convection and conduction in this area. Sodium filled Exhaust valves exist for that reason, research it. I am curious why on the Crank can't I see that the Crank Journal Oil hole is not crossed drilled to ensure proper oil to the Crank Bearing? Unless it is so worn, I was under the thought that this was used on the 428 ci but not all Engines received this upgrade? I built a 327 ci Motor when I was young and the first thing, I did was buy a book on building a small block Engine. I sent the block to the cleaner at an AC shop then to the Engine builder to do his magic and I purchased the parts. I had a Mechanic port the Heads AND ANOTHER ASSEMBLED THE motor AND THEN HE STOLE IT FROM ME one DAY I AM AT Deerfield BEACH FLORIDA AND THIS GUYS BROTHER, woops cap lock, drives by with a 1957 Chevy with a brand new 327 ci, how proud he was. I looked at it and heard it run at last. I had not recorded the numbers and new no better at that time. The man that stole the motor went to jail on an unrelated charge and later hung himself, why I don't no. The point is if you put your mind to it and keep with the Forum, they will walk you through this build and then you can be proud that you built it with your own two hands, most of it, let the machine shop do their magic though. Last edited by TRADERMIKE 2012; 07-09-2022 at 05:21 AM. |
#70
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A 400 can be tremendous fun with a Vortex super charger pumping up the cylinders!
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I do stuff for reasons. |
#71
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Things are moving slowly so I've been taking my time and doing my homework in prep for this build.
I'm awaiting a 4.25" stroker kit from Butler. Cylinders will just require a clean up with the estimated final bore being 4.17. That will put this build at 464ci. Awaiting the custom dished pistons (9.5 comp ratio) to do the work. I ordered the kit in early March and there's a 12-14 week backlog on the pistons, hoping the kit will be here this month. Went with a cast crank at their recommendation since this is a pretty mild build but stepped up to their best bearings. I have a set of Durabond bearings for the cam. Spent the $ on a Butler blueprinted oil pump, a hardened drive shaft and a drilled oil galley plug to make sure everything gets oil. I sold the 224/230 roller and Lunati (Morel) lifters I purchased for the build when it was going to be a 400 and moved up to 230/236, .510/.521, 114 hydraulic roller with a set Johnson lifters. Still intending on using the PRW 1.5 roller rockers I got from Kauffmann. Simms made me a really nice timing set to tie the bottom end and top end together. The RA II heads are getting the once over at the same shop the block is at. Nothing special - stainless valves, new guides, seals, hardened exhaust seats, Comp springs/retainers for the roller cam. The shop is taking their sweet time, but they're really detail oriented and that's alright with me. These will be tied to repro round port Ram Air manifolds with 2.5 outlets. '68 Q-Jet is with Ray Klemm for a refresh. I've got a repro RA IV intake I'm planning on massaging the ports as required. The quality and alignment is much better than I expected. There are pics in an old post somewhere. I already modified the carb base Cliff-style. Since this has gotten expensive, I tabled my plans for an OD auto and had a '68 TH400 rebuilt at a local performance-oriented trans shop. I'm going to give my old 13" Continential a whirl and see how it works behind the 464. Stripped and repainted the engine bay, rebuilt the suspension and steering. It's all dressed up with nowhere to go. I'm planning on assembling the engine myself and will be taking my time so expect more questions as I get into it.
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Ken '68 GTO - Ram Air II 464 - 236/242 roller - 9.5” TSP converter - 3.55 posi (build thread | walk around) '95 Comp T/A #6 M6 - bone stock (pics) Last edited by Verdoro 68; 07-09-2022 at 04:28 PM. |
#72
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Looking great!
I had an old post with pics of my old RAIV repop intake and contrary to what had been posted by a few, the port alignment was decent and overall quality was nice. Certainly wasn't any worse than the OEM cast iron piece I took off. That was 4-5 years ago and have been driving it daily since with no complaints. Glad to see your recent purchase of that intake sounds as though it's still the same quality as mine was. I think that 13" continental will work fine. That 230@ .050 cam spread way out on a 114 will idle baby smooth in a 464 and make plenty of grunt, not much converter needed. Should be a sleeper of an engine. |
#73
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I waffled between a 112 and 114, chose the 114 after reading a few old posts on here from Cliff I think? Probably not much difference, really, but I like the idea of it being a sleeper torque monster.
If the Continental doesn’t work out, the trans shop gave me a restalled TCI 12” converter but I figured I’d start with a known quantity. Found the pics from my intake. I think there’s plenty to work with there. https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...0&postcount=24
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Ken '68 GTO - Ram Air II 464 - 236/242 roller - 9.5” TSP converter - 3.55 posi (build thread | walk around) '95 Comp T/A #6 M6 - bone stock (pics) |
#74
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Yep that's easy to deal with
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#75
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Move inches not feet like you're doing. I have been learning about the Th 400 for about the last year and collecting the parts and necessary tools that I don't own. I will be dissecting it Next weekend to see what failed. I would start this weekend but the van sprung a freeze plug leak, another setback. Check my other posts if you want. Sounds like you are on your way, have fun and read. |
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