#1  
Old 01-13-2022, 01:17 PM
n20ta2's Avatar
n20ta2 n20ta2 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cape Cod MA
Posts: 1,000
Default Cam degree question

I installed my comp roller a got From Kauffman yesterday and my Sims precision machine roller bearing timing chain installed straight up as a starting reference point. After I degree the setup it comes in at 108 on the centerline. Cam is ground on a 110, so it's been a number of years for me since I have done one, do I install the bottom gear -2 to get my 110? Thanks guys!

__________________
1969 GTO street strip project 11.1 forged 461, highport heads
1995 Trans-am 420 ci sb 14:1 compression 9"ford
9.89@132 1.34 60ft SOLD!
  #2  
Old 01-13-2022, 01:46 PM
Mike Davis's Avatar
Mike Davis Mike Davis is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Athens Ga, or at a NMCA race
Posts: 1,994
Default

Honestly if you are at 108 I would try that. Chain will stretch some and lose a degree or 2 after some miles.

__________________
66 GTO Nostalgia Super Stock/Street Legal Car
421 CID, stock block, Wenzler Intake, 2- Carter 750 AFB's, 3.90 Gears, Full Factory Interior, Full Exhaust, Stock Suspension 3750LBS 9.77@136.99
Multiple NSCA/NMCA World Champion

66 GTO 389 3x2, 4 speed, 4.33 gear, Montero Red 33K original Miles
67 GTO 2dr Post, 428, Tri Power, 3.55 Gears
80 Trans Am Black SE Y84 W72 WS6
The Following User Says Thank You to Mike Davis For This Useful Post:
  #3  
Old 01-13-2022, 03:18 PM
n20ta2's Avatar
n20ta2 n20ta2 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cape Cod MA
Posts: 1,000
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Davis View Post
Honestly if you are at 108 I would try that. Chain will stretch some and lose a degree or 2 after some miles.
So you don't think I would be losing any power with that cam timing? I'm running as cast high highports with around 11:01 compression in my 461

__________________
1969 GTO street strip project 11.1 forged 461, highport heads
1995 Trans-am 420 ci sb 14:1 compression 9"ford
9.89@132 1.34 60ft SOLD!
  #4  
Old 01-13-2022, 03:25 PM
Stan Weiss's Avatar
Stan Weiss Stan Weiss is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,000
Default

Can you post a picture of the cam card?

Stan

__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises
Offering Performance Software Since 1987
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm
David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV
Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php
Pontiac Pump Gas List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm
Using PMD Block and Heads List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm
  #5  
Old 01-13-2022, 03:35 PM
n20ta2's Avatar
n20ta2 n20ta2 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cape Cod MA
Posts: 1,000
Default

Sure! I will post one when I get home in a couple hrs

__________________
1969 GTO street strip project 11.1 forged 461, highport heads
1995 Trans-am 420 ci sb 14:1 compression 9"ford
9.89@132 1.34 60ft SOLD!
  #6  
Old 01-13-2022, 05:08 PM
n20ta2's Avatar
n20ta2 n20ta2 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cape Cod MA
Posts: 1,000
Default

Here it is. I'm running 1.65 rockers
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1642108066754263305674556973770.jpg
Views:	211
Size:	43.6 KB
ID:	581827  

__________________
1969 GTO street strip project 11.1 forged 461, highport heads
1995 Trans-am 420 ci sb 14:1 compression 9"ford
9.89@132 1.34 60ft SOLD!
  #7  
Old 01-13-2022, 05:13 PM
70GS455 70GS455 is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 733
Default

I would leave it at 108. With 304 deg of adv int duration, that's a lot. The intake valve will close late enough, even with 11 to 1 static..

Sent from my SM-T817V using Tapatalk

  #8  
Old 01-13-2022, 05:20 PM
Joe's Garage Joe's Garage is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Las Vega$, NV
Posts: 637
Default Lots of opinions, but what about the original question?

We don't do a lot of cam degreeing, but would like to better understand the mechanics of what changes need to be made to move lobe timing. The OP probably would like to know, too. That's why he posted the question.

Would switching the bottom gear to the -2 mark move the cam from 108 to 110?

Thanks.

  #9  
Old 01-13-2022, 07:10 PM
AG's Avatar
AG AG is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: NH
Posts: 3,240
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe's Garage View Post
We don't do a lot of cam degreeing, but would like to better understand the mechanics of what changes need to be made to move lobe timing. The OP probably would like to know, too. That's why he posted the question.

Would switching the bottom gear to the -2 mark move the cam from 108 to 110?

Thanks.
Theoretically yes.

__________________
1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule.
  #10  
Old 01-14-2022, 01:22 AM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Humbolt County California
Posts: 8,283
Default

You are fine, run it. My cam came in at 111, supposed to be 112.

The Following User Says Thank You to Dragncar For This Useful Post:
  #11  
Old 01-14-2022, 10:46 AM
n20ta2's Avatar
n20ta2 n20ta2 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cape Cod MA
Posts: 1,000
Default

Well here in another wrench to throw into the gears. I emailed kauffman before I posted up here and he now suggests getting in closer to 106. What exactly would that do for my combination?

__________________
1969 GTO street strip project 11.1 forged 461, highport heads
1995 Trans-am 420 ci sb 14:1 compression 9"ford
9.89@132 1.34 60ft SOLD!
  #12  
Old 01-14-2022, 11:51 AM
Mike Davis's Avatar
Mike Davis Mike Davis is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Athens Ga, or at a NMCA race
Posts: 1,994
Default

What is the whole combo? 106 will give it more bottom end and have a narrower power band than a 108.

__________________
66 GTO Nostalgia Super Stock/Street Legal Car
421 CID, stock block, Wenzler Intake, 2- Carter 750 AFB's, 3.90 Gears, Full Factory Interior, Full Exhaust, Stock Suspension 3750LBS 9.77@136.99
Multiple NSCA/NMCA World Champion

66 GTO 389 3x2, 4 speed, 4.33 gear, Montero Red 33K original Miles
67 GTO 2dr Post, 428, Tri Power, 3.55 Gears
80 Trans Am Black SE Y84 W72 WS6
  #13  
Old 01-14-2022, 11:52 AM
Stan Weiss's Avatar
Stan Weiss Stan Weiss is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,000
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by n20ta2 View Post
Here it is. I'm running 1.65 rockers
Thanks for posting the cam card.

Sure wish Pastry Chef (Mike) was not suspended. He would be able to post up the actual lobe curves for these lobes. This would give us a better understanding of what advancing the cam and moving all 4 cam events would do. While advancing the cam does not change how much overlap the cam has it does change how the overlap will work. They are some on PY who like to degree the cam where the intake lifter raise is 0.030" higher than the exhaust ATDC.

Stan

__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises
Offering Performance Software Since 1987
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm
David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV
Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php
Pontiac Pump Gas List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm
Using PMD Block and Heads List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm
  #14  
Old 01-14-2022, 01:34 PM
n20ta2's Avatar
n20ta2 n20ta2 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cape Cod MA
Posts: 1,000
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan Weiss View Post
Thanks for posting the cam card.

Sure wish Pastry Chef (Mike) was not suspended. He would be able to post up the actual lobe curves for these lobes. This would give us a better understanding of what advancing the cam and moving all 4 cam events would do. While advancing the cam does not change how much overlap the cam has it does change how the overlap will work. They are some on PY who like to degree the cam where the intake lifter raise is 0.030" higher than the exhaust ATDC.

Stan
Interesting, it's all nee to me, I have never messed with cam timing other then to match the cam card and I have usually had them spot on eith the card with the dots lined up.

__________________
1969 GTO street strip project 11.1 forged 461, highport heads
1995 Trans-am 420 ci sb 14:1 compression 9"ford
9.89@132 1.34 60ft SOLD!
  #15  
Old 01-14-2022, 01:38 PM
n20ta2's Avatar
n20ta2 n20ta2 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cape Cod MA
Posts: 1,000
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Davis View Post
What is the whole combo? 106 will give it more bottom end and have a narrower power band than a 108.
Ok so it's in a 69 gto, all steel. 12 bolt with 3.73 gear, th400 with a continental 3800-4000 stall. Tire is a 295 65 15 Mt radial. Engine is a 461 with as cast highports, zero decked 11:01 compression with 1.65 ratio rockers.. I will be using a northwind intake with either a 950 hp or a 1050 dominator.

__________________
1969 GTO street strip project 11.1 forged 461, highport heads
1995 Trans-am 420 ci sb 14:1 compression 9"ford
9.89@132 1.34 60ft SOLD!
  #16  
Old 01-14-2022, 01:40 PM
n20ta2's Avatar
n20ta2 n20ta2 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cape Cod MA
Posts: 1,000
Default

Should also add this is a matching numbers block with studded 2 bolt mains so I'm not planning on spinning this thing very high. I know I'm limited with my block hp wise.

__________________
1969 GTO street strip project 11.1 forged 461, highport heads
1995 Trans-am 420 ci sb 14:1 compression 9"ford
9.89@132 1.34 60ft SOLD!
  #17  
Old 01-14-2022, 01:47 PM
Mike Davis's Avatar
Mike Davis Mike Davis is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Athens Ga, or at a NMCA race
Posts: 1,994
Default

With that converter and gear I would leave it where it's at personally.
I don't think you will see much difference between 108 and 106.

__________________
66 GTO Nostalgia Super Stock/Street Legal Car
421 CID, stock block, Wenzler Intake, 2- Carter 750 AFB's, 3.90 Gears, Full Factory Interior, Full Exhaust, Stock Suspension 3750LBS 9.77@136.99
Multiple NSCA/NMCA World Champion

66 GTO 389 3x2, 4 speed, 4.33 gear, Montero Red 33K original Miles
67 GTO 2dr Post, 428, Tri Power, 3.55 Gears
80 Trans Am Black SE Y84 W72 WS6
  #18  
Old 01-14-2022, 03:34 PM
Stan Weiss's Avatar
Stan Weiss Stan Weiss is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,000
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by n20ta2 View Post
Should also add this is a matching numbers block with studded 2 bolt mains so I'm not planning on spinning this thing very high. I know I'm limited with my block hp wise.
Can you put that in terms of RPM?

Stan

__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises
Offering Performance Software Since 1987
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm
David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV
Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php
Pontiac Pump Gas List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm
Using PMD Block and Heads List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm
  #19  
Old 01-14-2022, 05:51 PM
n20ta2's Avatar
n20ta2 n20ta2 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cape Cod MA
Posts: 1,000
Default

Safe is probably what 6- 6500?

__________________
1969 GTO street strip project 11.1 forged 461, highport heads
1995 Trans-am 420 ci sb 14:1 compression 9"ford
9.89@132 1.34 60ft SOLD!
  #20  
Old 01-14-2022, 07:15 PM
Stan Weiss's Avatar
Stan Weiss Stan Weiss is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,000
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by n20ta2 View Post
Safe is probably what 6- 6500?
Thanks. No sure what others think, but with your parts and where I see it making peak power you would need to turn 6500 or so.

Stan

__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises
Offering Performance Software Since 1987
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm
David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV
Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php
Pontiac Pump Gas List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm
Using PMD Block and Heads List
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:37 PM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017