#1  
Old 01-16-2022, 01:01 PM
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65madgoat 65madgoat is offline
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Default Valve Spring Recommendation for 535ci on the street

Looking for some advice on valve springs for this pump gas combo that will see up to 5,000 miles a year on the street with some auto-x and road race days here and there.

535ci
340cfm round port E-heads with 2.25 valves
262/270 @ .050 hydraulic roller cam and hyd roller lifters
1.65 shaft rockers with .627 lift
1.8 installed height for springs

Appreciate your replies on what may be best for the use.


Last edited by 65madgoat; 01-16-2022 at 01:12 PM.
  #2  
Old 01-16-2022, 01:14 PM
Steve C. Steve C. is offline
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Curious as to the type of retainers. In addition to who ground the cam and their seat duration and .200" duration.

.

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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE
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Old 01-16-2022, 01:40 PM
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Manley titanium retainers and comp cam grind # PB 3373B / 33758

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Old 01-16-2022, 01:57 PM
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Are you asking for a recommendation for seat and open pressure , or brand?
Manley Nextex serise of springs should have a couple of part numbers and sizes available that would hold up well for your needs.

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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs!
And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!
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Old 01-16-2022, 02:01 PM
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Seat and open pressure - thanks. Open to brands.

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Old 01-16-2022, 02:06 PM
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Why not consult your Cam card?

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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs!
And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!
  #7  
Old 01-16-2022, 02:22 PM
Steve C. Steve C. is offline
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Comp Xtreme Marine Hydraulic Roller High Lift lobes.

Years ago we had a well respected gentleman that owned a performance shop and posted here. He ran a 535 combo and on the intake side he used the same 3373B lobe. But less exhaust duration. His Edelbrock cylinder heads had a 80 percent intake-to-exhaust flow ratio. Lobe separation was 110 and 108 ICL.

On the chassis dyno HP curve was flat from 5600 to 6300 rpm. It pulled to a higher rpm up toward 7000 but with no difference in ET on his combo. He also had his cylinder heads set up with a 1.900" installed height.
I do not have the specific part numbers but he ran Beehive springs from PAC Racing Springs with 145 seat and 410 open.

With this said we know the ads will say the Beehive spring was designed to deliver increased valvetrain stability, and be much lighter. This was achieved by utilizing less spring pressure with better valve control.
And reducing the the weight of both the spring and retainer. That said he did not have larger diameter and presumably heavier valves as you do.
The obvious, most will probably suggest higher spring pressures with a dual valve spring.

Therefore I'm passing on these tidbits for further conversation and not based on my personal experience. Also not necessarily offered as any endorsement.


.

__________________
'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE

Last edited by Steve C.; 01-16-2022 at 02:30 PM.
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Old 01-16-2022, 02:23 PM
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Cam card says nothing. And not like I can get a hold of Comp.

Plus most spring recommendations I feel are for 1/4 mile runs not longer term street reliability.

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Old 01-16-2022, 03:05 PM
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With that amount of lift your E heads had to be set up by someone, so who did such, or who did you get them from?

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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs!
And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!
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Old 01-16-2022, 03:28 PM
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Dave did them. But his program messed up and his spec sheet on what springs are in the heads is not matching up and conflicting.

With all he has going on looking for some real street advice...

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Old 01-16-2022, 03:39 PM
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Well first off we really need to know what the OD is of your current springs, like 1.460” or 1.550”?

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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs!
And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!
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Old 01-16-2022, 03:57 PM
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Don't have heads in front of me. If the Crane springs then 1.460 -- but if Howards 98644 then 1.550.

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Old 01-16-2022, 04:00 PM
Steve C. Steve C. is offline
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Correction to my post #7 above.

The valve springs used were Comp Cams beehive springs - 145lbs seat/ 405lbs. open.

In addition I want to retract this statement....

"That said he did not have larger diameter and presumably heavier valves as you do."

Going back to notes from years ago I'm now unsure of the specific valve size. However looking over other data from years ago they were larger diameter.

.

__________________
'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE
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Old 01-16-2022, 04:04 PM
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With your .627” lift I would say finding springs with a 1.460” OD that would work would be very limited and would be running very close to coil bind with that limiting 1.800” installed height.
This is just off the top of my head mind you!

__________________
Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs!
And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!
  #15  
Old 01-16-2022, 04:05 PM
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Dave put these springs on my heads
https://www.jegs.com/i/Comp+Cams/249...r%20Categories
They have a smaller diameter and the spring/retainer package is quite a bit lighter than the usual 1.46-1.55 diameter set ups. Titanium retainers are available for them if you want to save more weight.
With .627” lift you could run .030” shims under them and have 150+ seat pressure.

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68 GTO,3860#
Stock Original 400/M-20 Muncie,3.55’s
13.86 @ 100
Old combo:
462 10.75 CR,,SD 330CFM Round Port E's,Old Faithful cam,Jim Hand Continental,3.42's.
1968 Pontiac GTO : 11.114 @ 120.130 MPH

New combo:
517 MR-1,10.8 CR,SD 350CFM E's,QFT 950/Northwind,246/252 HR,9.5” 4000 stall,3.42's
636HP/654TQ
1.452 10.603 @ 125.09
http://www.dragtimes.com/Pontiac-GTO...lip-31594.html
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Old 01-16-2022, 04:14 PM
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Typical hydraulic roller spring pressures on engines like this (with fairly heavy valvetrains) is around 150 lbs. on the seat and somewhere around 400 lbs. open.
That's what most like to see, and works fine on the street. It could vary a bit depending on valvetrain and lobe profile.

My BBC is also around those spring pressure numbers with comp lobes and it's been on the street for 20 years. Dad's 571 Pontiac runs a 262/265 @ .050 hydraulic roller with voodoo lobes. His lift is up in the .660 or .670 range and his springs are either 150 or 160 on the seat, and his open pressure is 420 from what I remember. I just set them up a little over a year ago. It's primarily street driven.

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Old 01-16-2022, 04:19 PM
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Thanks.

Anybody have comments on these springs I have come across:

https://www.compcams.com/dual-valve-...i-d-inner.html


165 seat and 367 spring rate with a 1.489" O.D

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Old 01-16-2022, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCSGTO View Post
Dave put these springs on my heads
https://www.jegs.com/i/Comp+Cams/249...r%20Categories
They have a smaller diameter and the spring/retainer package is quite a bit lighter than the usual 1.46-1.55 diameter set ups. Titanium retainers are available for them if you want to save more weight.
With .627” lift you could run .030” shims under them and have 150+ seat pressure.
Those are the springs Dave used for my Eddy RP CNC chamber, CNC ported by Dave, with tool steel retainers set-up for 150# seat and 0.630" lift.

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1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule.
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Old 01-16-2022, 04:46 PM
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Those Howard’s springs would not work since there rated at 230 seat with a 1.880” height, set at 1,800” you would have well over 320 on the seat .

Yes, those Comp springs, ( 914 ) would work with the 1.800” height and the 741 retainer if yours will not work.

Ideally you want a spring that set at your height still has room to eat up a .030” shim once they take a set and drop some pressure,

__________________
Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs!
And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!

Last edited by steve25; 01-16-2022 at 04:53 PM.
  #20  
Old 01-16-2022, 04:54 PM
Steve C. Steve C. is offline
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Regarding the comment above " If the Crane springs then 1.460"

That is the same diameter as the Crane 99893 spring that Dave Bisschop has used many times in the past for his Old Faithful hyd roller cam. Dave has stated he found they were 145-150 set up at 1.800" installed height. And he noted they lose pressure after run in. At that installed height it is a good fit for your valve lift. But that cam is not as aggressive as your Xtreme Marine roller.

As noted Dave is now using the Comp 26925 spring. Rated 141 at 1.810"

.

__________________
'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE
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