[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

More from 1966 Geeto Tiger Program.
Look closely and you will see that there are two Tiger Suits. One full one worn by John Ploitzer. The other by the announcer without the Tiger head.

Another shot from Indy. You will see the Royal team working on the cars behind the Rail. (dragster)

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

One more Geeto Tiger photo.
Royal's 66 Race Car. While Royal won this west coast event it, and all GTO's, were disqualified if they used the Ram Air Pan in Stock class. The NHRA felt that Pontiac had not produced enough Ram Air cars yet to be considered "Stock".

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Remember I told you that Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac's back room became PMD's engineering/experimental/road test group after regular dealership service dept hours. Here are Royal Pontiac's 1964 Tri-power Cowl induction Ram Air system and what was to be the "real" defintion of Ram Air IV. Four inlets of bringing air into the carb. Two from the hood scoops and two from the front of the car. Thus, four air inlets.

The setup is on the Lime Light Green GTO Ram Air IV, engineering/press car/ Magazine/mule/ that became the Judge/magazine/Ram Air III/PMD's ad car/fake Ram Air V/ and Jim Wanger's/Royal Pontiac's Woodward Ave street racer.....Boy is that a mouth full!!!!

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

After John Delorean moved onto Chevrolet in early 1969 Jim Wangers soon left the Ad agency and Ace Wilson Sr. sold the Royal Racing Team to George Delorean. A memo from John Delorean that all high performance parts, blocks, heads etc. will be picked up. All of the items went to George and his Leader Automotive in Ferdale.

Basicly, the hand writting was on the wall and the new PMD general manager and PMD head engineer would no longer be budgeting Royal Pontiac from engineering R&D fund. The support that Jim Wangers and Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac had gotten from Knudsen, Estes and Delorean was now over.

Here is Leader Automotive/Royal Racing Teams' Firebird 350 HO now running in the 11.0's. Remember that John Politzer had this car running in th 11.80's and were asked to leave a East Coast event.

[SD421]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

One more Geeto Tiger photo.
Royal's 66 Race Car. While Royal won this west coast event it, and all GTO's, were disqualified if they used the Ram Air Pan in Stock class. The NHRA felt that Pontiac had not produced enough Ram Air cars yet to be considered "Stock".

Thanks again Dr. Schiffer for all of your insight/pictures etc... It makes me feel like I know these guys.

BTW Do you know how long it was before Milt realized that the Hurst wheels were slowing the Royal GTO down?? Was it a full race season?


Don

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

After John Delorean moved onto Chevrolet in early 1969 Jim Wangers soon left the Ad agency and Ace Wilson Sr. sold the Royal Racing Team to George Delorean. A memo from John Delorean that all high performance parts, blocks, heads etc. will be picked up. All of the items went to George and his Leader Automotive in Ferdale.

Basicly, the hand writting was on the wall and the new PMD general manager and PMD head engineer would no longer be budgeting Royal Pontiac from engineering R&D fund. The support that Jim Wangers and Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac had gotten from Knudsen, Estes and Delorean was now over....

The beginning of the end....

For another perspective, Dad was inside the Pontiac Engineering building some time after the news came down. There was a wire bin/fenced in area where they kept all of the special "one off" engineering parts. Dad was walking throught the building one day and there was a guy in that area scrapping all of those parts.

Dad said "...what are you doing?!?"

Guy: "...they said get rid of all this."

Dad: "Can I take some out?"

Guy: "Take what you want, but it will all be gone by the end of the day".

So - Dad loaded up the trunk of his Lemans with everything he could grab in one trip. I recall he said that there were two blocks, a couple sets of cylinder heads, at least one tripower and at least one Armasteel crank - all marked with red paint as "scrap".

There was a little dip in the driveway where the cars went through the Security gate - Dad said the back bumper of the Lemans drug the pavement in that spot on his way out!

K

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by SD421

Thanks again Dr. Schiffer for all of your insight/pictures etc... It makes me feel like I know these guys.

BTW Do you know how long it was before Milt realized that the Hurst wheels were slowing the Royal GTO down?? Was it a full race season?


Don

Well the best way to touch on this is just to say, it was not in Milt's job discription to select the wheels, or sponsors for the cars. Hurst was a major sponsor and a part of the Geeto Tiger and Royal Racing Team program.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

The beginning of the end....

For another perspective, Dad was inside the Pontiac Engineering building some time after the news came down. There was a wire bin/fenced in area where they kept all of the special "one off" engineering parts. Dad was walking throught the building one day and there was a guy in that area scrapping all of those parts.

Dad said "...what are you doing?!?"

Guy: "...they said get rid of all this."

Dad: "Can I take some out?"

Guy: "Take what you want, but it will all be gone by the end of the day".

So - Dad loaded up the trunk of his Lemans with everything he could grab in one trip. I recall he said that there were two blocks, a couple sets of cylinder heads, at least one tripower and at least one Armasteel crank - all marked with red paint as "scrap".

There was a little dip in the driveway where the cars went through the Security gate - Dad said the back bumper of the Lemans drug the pavement in that spot on his way out!

K

Your dad was lucky that he got things out of the factory as they were getting thrown out. Royal cleaned out their old stuff too. John Politizer and Brian Ballish said they throw out tons of heads intakes etc.in to a dumpster. The newer stuff they had to pull for pick up and could not take anything. They lined it on the floor for pick up to go back to engineering or on to George Delorean's Leader Automotive.

Unlike when everything was in full swing and the guys at Royal, Stan Long and Packer just headed over to engineering and picked out as many items and anything they needed. The special fabricated stuff no longer was made for them.

The back door slamed shut! With only a breif peek now and then. Like the stuff used on the Black Bird. Some of which had been abandoned projects while other stuff was in particial development.

Doug Nash, helped the Pontiac guys for a while too. There is a 455 X engineering block with ram air IV heads and a Doug Nash PMD engineering X Tunnel ram dual quad set up on it. Last time I saw the engine it was in Flushing, MI along with a '68 GTO Royal Bobcat, a '73 SD455 Brewster green T/A. That however was approx. 1989

[brut4s]

Wow! I always wonder what we would have now if there was no GM ban on racing, and the new PMD general manager and PMD head engineer were into performance.

[rad400]

I think Pontiac would have keep thier engines and we would not be so far behind. Granted we are catching up now.

[brut4s]

I agree! Pontiac might even still be around.

[brut4s]

Dr.Schiffer, anymore pics of The Blackbird? Rear shots, interior and engine?

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

I think I have some more photos of the Black bird at Milan Dragway when we went with Jim Wangers and Robert Johnson. Robert ran the Ponticarlo with us. My son brought out our '97 Trans Am convertible that day too.

If I recall the Blackbird throw a rear end ring bolt through the chrome rearend cover as I warmed the tires in the pits getting into line. As I walked around the car waiting for our lane to be called I noted fluid runnig out of the rear end. Likely I hadn't done this on a run. I just loaded the car back onto the trailer. Took it home pulled the rear cover. Changed to ARP ring bolts and a Moroso rearend cover. Sprayed the cover black and we are back in bussiness.

I'll look for more pictures. Otherwise I beleive some one posted several links for the Pontiac Enthusiast photo shoot and from the www.Royalpontiac.org website's memeber section.

I had posted pictures of the cars interior before I changed the steering wheel, twice and put a radio and heater back in it. I know I posted shots of the interior with the door panels off.

What are you trying to see?

[SD421]

[QUOTE=Dr. Eric M. Schiffer;4456133]

I'll look for more pictures. Otherwise I beleive some one posted several links for the Pontiac Enthusiast photo shoot and from the www.Royalpontiac.org website's memeber section.

QUOTE]

Dr. Schiffer, I noticed under the members section of the Royal Pontiac website this comment about Jim Gannes's 1967 GTO Convertible. "During rebuild, 428 was stolen by Milt Schorneck in 1989".

Is there more to this story???

Thanks,
Don

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by rad400

I think Pontiac would have keep thier engines and we would not be so far behind. Granted we are catching up now.

We can all thank Roger Smith beginning with the 1977 Chevrolet engines being found in Oldsmobles. Law suit came from that one. So Roger in his wisdom told the press that all engines are corporate and we will put in to each car what we feel is right.

The nail went into the coffin for Olds, Buick and Pontiac V8's.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

[QUOTE=SD421;4456140]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

I'll look for more pictures. Otherwise I beleive some one posted several links for the Pontiac Enthusiast photo shoot and from the www.Royalpontiac.org website's memeber section.

QUOTE]

Dr. Schiffer, I noticed under the members section of the Royal Pontiac website this comment about Jim Gannes's 1967 GTO Convertible. "During rebuild, 428 was stolen by Milt Schorneck in 1989".

Is there more to this story???

Thanks,
Don

I am going to pass on this question. I don't think this is the place to discuss Milt.
Let's just keep it light and friendly. OK
Sorry.

[SD421]

[QUOTE=Dr. Eric M. Schiffer;4456183]

Originally Posted by SD421

I am going to pass on this question. I don't think this is the place to discuss Milt.
Let's just keep it light and friendly. OK
Sorry.

I PM'd you.

Don

[MH 1964]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

How about some Geeto Tiger photos? This was a very sucessful program. John Politzer was the the Mystery Tiger all year long. With the exception of the last race when the Tiger was revealed. John became the lucky ticket holder that raced the Mystery Tiger.

John had to hold back on this last race which George Hurst worn the Tiger suit. George launched poorly and missed shifts. But George finally won.

They was a towing accident with one of the Geeto Tigers. John's grand mother had passed away while the team was on the east coast. When they finished the program that night Dave Warren, Sid and John headed out to get John home in time for the Funeral.

All John remembers is that he was in one of the Tigers, they would flat tow, and some how the car came loose. John woke up to Dave and Sid Warren yelling at him to wake up. The cars had to be replaced. If you have picture of the old '66's you will notice the early cars had opposite GeeTo Tiger print and different Philo's. One side would have Philo with a raised hand. The other side would have Philo with his hand over his mouth and a dropped E and reversed. The cars would face you with the different sides. The new cars had the same thing facing you. Both Philo's waving or hand over his mouth with the dropped and reversed E. (The white sided car is the one that changed)

John Politzer is seen racing a blonde. This is professional racer Shirley Shaheen in the close lane. John beat her too.

Just another behind the scenes.

Eric,

None of these 66s are around right, were they sold or scrapped. Also were these GTOs all tiger gold and then the graphics painted on??

[brut4s]

Thanks Dr.Schiffer that link is what I was looking for. I had not seen any shots of the engine and rear.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by MH 1964

Eric,

None of these 66s are around right, were they sold or scrapped. Also were these GTOs all tiger gold and then the graphics painted on??

Mark,
Good to hear from you. In 1987 George Delorean said he had the '66 Race car. I never saw it at his shop or in the fenced in area next to his building. I know George's daughter had a Hurst Olds. Don't ask me what year it was. I can't remember if it was a '69 or one of the Pace Car Coupes.

All of these '66 GTO's; Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac Race Car, GeetoTiger race cars and tow cars had been special ordered by Jim Wangers' for the program. ie No sound deading, no dumb dumb, no consoles and no under coating. All Tiger Gold in color. Royal painted the cars body sides either white or black. Sign painter did the sides. Decals placed on the sides and C-pillar. Afterwards the painted sides got striped.

Disposal? not really sure. I just don't remember what I was told was done with all of these cars. Many times these cars were just put out on the used car lot and sold. Some times back to the factory for other programs and either sold or scraped. There was less problems with liability back than.

Eric