Non Pontiac Motors in Pontiacs includes factory 403,305,350 Chevy, Buick V6,
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  #41  
Old 05-25-2009, 11:58 PM
fbrown fbrown is offline
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Project updates.

I finally got a belt to fit. The third attempt. This was a painful experience since the auto parts store in my area don't stock anything. They always say we can get it in a day, two at they most. So since I'm going to wait and then go get it when it comes in, I just order from Rockauto.com. Much cheaper (including shipping) and only a day longer, plus its waiting for me when I get home.



I put a slight dent in the header just to be safe. I really don't think the dent will affect flow very much. You can also see that the stock LS3 spark plug wire hits the header. This also occurs on one spot on the other side.



Here I'm starting to connect the ECM wires.



Fender problems. I though I would just need to weld a small patch at the bottom of the fender. After grinding across a very small rust bubble and then grinding alot more after finding filler, I find that most of the metal is missing and was replaced with filler. There was no visible problems from the back of the fender. The rust and repair was hidden by the brace. The fender must also be slight bent. The alighment above the picture is fair, but the fender sticks out about 3/4-1" at the bottom. If you align the bottom of the dender, the door to fender alignment in the middle is really bad and scrapes when opening the door.



And while I am looking at body problems, do all Pontiacs have this extra gap at the top of the door?


  #42  
Old 05-26-2009, 12:18 AM
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Looks like things are moving right along.

The minor dent in the header tube is a non-issue as far as any reduction in flow is concerned.

The door gap can be adjusted out for the most part, but these old warriors do have some pretty big gaps compared to the superior fit of the body panels on the newer cars. Just wait until you get that endura front bumper aligned, the gaps are always big on those.

Could you please share the part number of the serpentine belt you found that works?

Did you have to change any of the pulley sizes like you thought you might need to do?

Thanks, Bart

  #43  
Old 05-26-2009, 12:39 AM
fbrown fbrown is offline
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Belt - Gates - K061010 13/16" x 101 5/8"

No changes were made to the GM supplied parts, other than the Kwik AC bracket. Perhaps the belt listed in the Kwik sheet correct if you use both their AC and ALT brackets.

  #44  
Old 05-26-2009, 08:37 PM
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How many pounds less will this car be when it's done? With only the aftermarket hood, bumper and battery left to install this car is almost on the upper stops. With me standing on the front frame it only goes down maybe 1/2". ( I weight 225)

This makes me think I would need custom made springs for the front. It would appear none of the standard Pontiac springs would work. I guess I could start cutting coils off the spring to get the height down.

How much did the Pontiac 350-2V weight?


  #45  
Old 05-26-2009, 11:07 PM
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I bet you are saving at least 200 pounds compared to the Pontiac engine. Maybe even 300 if it had iron heads and intake.

What upper radiator hose did you use? Did it have 1.5" opening on the radiator side and 1.25" on the engine side?

Andrew

  #46  
Old 05-26-2009, 11:40 PM
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Upper hose is Dayco 71132, 1.5" radiator, 1.25" engine.

The original engine was all steel and an AC car. EBAY pictures showed that it had a normal ride height before the engine was removed. I may have cut 400 pounds off the weight of the car. Other weight reduction items are new core support, hood, power steering box, radiator, fan shroud removal. My guess is the 4L70E is lighter than the powerglide I removed. (at least my back thought so)

  #47  
Old 05-26-2009, 11:53 PM
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A Powerglide (did your GTO really have 2-speed Powerglide installed?) weighs a scant 100 pounds without a converter, a TH400 is about 145 pounds. The 4L70E outweighs the TH400 by about 25 pounds so no weight was saved with the trans swap.

Factory air conditioning on these cars adds about 100 to 125 pounds, so that's a big reduction right there if you're removed all of it.

I see some lowering springs in your future.

On my '64 GTO I went for some stock '67 Firebird V8 front springs to lower the car a couple of inches.

Some stock six-cylinder springs could work, but they may not be a great performance/handling spring. The '68 Lemans and Tempest came standard with a 250-inch overhead cam six under the hood, the six weighs around 440 pounds and that's within about 20 pounds of the LS3 with the six probably being the heavier of the two.

If you do order some lowering springs perhaps some that are made for a Chevelle with a smallblock would do the trick.

  #48  
Old 05-28-2009, 05:30 PM
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I'm curious if you are still using the list of parts that you posted before, and what headers you are using. Looks like Edelbrock headers, which part number? Had you thought about running SW or Hooker headers too? Also did you relocate your alternator as you had expected?

I'm looking at 68-69 Lemans/GTO LS swap, and so am curious as to what parts are working out.

  #49  
Old 05-28-2009, 08:12 PM
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I wanna thank you guys, FBrown, and B-man for sharing all this info. I REALLY appreciate and enjoy your documentaries. I'm going to do this with either my '71 Lemans sport or my '72 GTO. Your taking the time to post your progress here illustrates your high calibur status. Again, thank you! And I applaud you for doing things "your" way.

  #50  
Old 05-31-2009, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro Stock John View Post
I'm curious if you are still using the list of parts that you posted before, and what headers you are using. Looks like Edelbrock headers, which part number? Had you thought about running SW or Hooker headers too? Also did you relocate your alternator as you had expected?

I'm looking at 68-69 Lemans/GTO LS swap, and so am curious as to what parts are working out.
Work has come to a stop I have a broken foot and won't be doing much work for a while. Anyway to answer you question, I did not consider anything but the Edelbrock headers (A-Body swap headers) because they are part of their LS1 installation package. The package includes motor mounts, headers and exhaust system. You can also buy the components seperately. By sticking with a kit there should be less problems of making things fit. Also bear in mind that while I want very good performance from this project, all out performance was not my primary goal. So if I give up a few HP by my header and muffler selection, that’s OK for me. I am going to see if I can fit stock 05-06 GTO mufflers under the car.

The only thing I relocated was the AC compressor, I used a Sanden 508 instead of the GM unit and used relocation brackets from KWIK http://www.kwikperf.com/lsx_ac.html Other that that I used the LS2 Corvettte accessory kit from GMPP.

Although I am very close to being able to fire the fire, I still have a few things to resolve. Things left to resolve:

I don't have enough clearance where the transmission lines come out of the transmission. I will need to either lower the transmission about 1/2" or make a small modification to the transmission tunnel.

The Pedal from Hell.

The Accelerator Pedal (part of my ECM kit from Speartech) didn't come with a bracket and looks like it will require extensive fabrication to make something that will locate it correctly.

4L70E linkage problems.

The 4L70E had some kind of switch assembly that mounted at the transmission linkage connection. This moves the mounting point for the shifer linkage about 2" farther out. I am using a dual-gate shifter with a modification kit from Shiftworks. This kit as is, will not work with a 4L70E transmission. The simplest solution would appear to make a new bracket that will hold the transmission cable about a 1" farther away from the transmission. Otherwise the cable binds in the lower gears "1-2-3", seams to clear Park to OD.

Vintage Air vs. Stock AC.

While I was considering a Vintage Air system I have found out that here is no possibility of having outside air feed through the AC ducts with their system. They seal the door in their system. I'm simply not willing to give up outside air through the vents so it looks like I have to make the factory system work somehow. I use "vent" far more often than either AC or Heat.

Battery Location.

It would be better to locate the battery on the passenger side. The six cylinder engines located their battery on the passenger side. However the battery tray for the six is not reproduced and finding a used one looks difficult.

  #51  
Old 05-31-2009, 11:43 PM
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Regarding the transmission linkage, there are both long and short linkage shafts that can be installed. The long one is for fitting up a neutral safety switch that is not required for our older cars, our switch will be located on the shifter or on the column.
You need the shorter one, I ran into this issue just before the shipment of my trans. My trans guy knew enough to ask which one I needed, after talking with John at Speartech I found out that the switch on the trans itself is not needed.

The 'pedal from hell' can be swapped out for one that's made for a 2007 Monte Carlo SS. Refer to Andrew's build thread for a look at one, it's practically a direct bolt-in. I'm thinking about looking into one myself if I can't make mine work, wish I had the part number for it.

I was considering putting the battery on the right side of my car as it was there originally (six-cylinder car) and I still have the original but somewhat rusty battery tray. The location of my A/C system drier nixes that idea.

Hammer the tunnel, it's only sheetmetal. I'll soon be coming into that area on my build, I'll beat on the tunnel for clearance if I have to.

  #52  
Old 06-07-2009, 02:17 AM
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Default Help for 'The Pedal from Hell'

Here are a few pics showing how I mounted my pedal. The bracket is made from 2" X 3/16" angle iron 7-1/2" long. Hopefully your '68 is pretty much the same in this area of the firewall.








  #53  
Old 06-21-2009, 12:18 AM
fbrown fbrown is offline
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b-man, your firewall is much flatter than mine. The tape shows where the bottom of the gas pedal should be. I will have to place the assembly as high as it can go.



I did however do something about that horrible pad on my assembly. I had to grind away part of the metal to fit the 68 GTO pedal. It uses 68 mounting parts. The only additional was a couple of washers since the DBW metal is thinner than the 68.



Not much to report in general, I am home 5 days a week and can't work very much on the project . Injured foot


The trunk had more problems than I first thought. I had bought a one piece trunk floor to replace the metal shown in the green line.



However when deciding how much of the metal to remove I found that the trunk floor was more bondo than metal. The more I sanded the worse it became. That white stuff is bondo. There was so much bondo in the floor that my plama cutter wouldn't even cut the stuff. The plasma cutter kept shutting down because it couln'd sense a ground. The trunk had been badly repaired repaired many years ago and repainted. Even the paint looked old. The extensive problems weren't visible until I sanded the paint.



On the left side so much of the trunk floor was swiss chesse that the one piece trunk floor that I bought didn't even cover all the bad metal.



I made a patch rather than buying a left side truck floor. It's good that this is a small area and is almost flat.



Unfortunely I can't stay on my feet long enough to weld this patch in. So this will have to wait several weeks.

I did determine that both of the trunk drop-offs are good. No rust there.

I finally got 16" Ralley II wheels on the way. I canceled my order with Wheel Vintiques and orderd them from specialty wheel. (Thanks for the tip from rolling money pits) The wheels have shipped and should arrive the end of next week. The wheel Vintiques had been on order since October of last year.

  #54  
Old 06-29-2009, 09:00 PM
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New Wheels are here. Actually they arrived almost a week ago but couldn't get the GF to bring them to me sooner.

On to more interestering information

14" wheel - 22 lbs
15" wheel - 23 lbs
16" wheel - 28 lbs

Sorry about not showing wheels at normal ride height, but back of the car is on jack stands and the front rests on the upper stops even with the engine installed.

14" Wheels


15" Wheel


16" Wheel



Another shot of the 16"

  #55  
Old 07-01-2009, 10:51 PM
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Thanks for the pics fbrown. I'm curious as to how they will clear the front end. Do you still have drums on this car? Are you converting to disc? Changing from drum to disc spindles (like I plan to do) makes a big difference in the spacing and offset. Not finding anyone with these mounted on disc spindles is the only thing keeping me from buying them right away.

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  #56  
Old 07-01-2009, 11:25 PM
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The car has drums and will be converted to disc. I plan on using Global West Control Arms with B-Body spindles. That gives the car 12" Rotors with a large source of parts. Cadillac/Impala (including the 94-96 Impala SS) from 77-96 for rotors/pads, use 1LE Rotors to get 5 on 4.75" spacing. I had not done any of the front end work since the rotors would not clear the 14" wheels that came with the car. Considering that this is a common swap and I had not found anyone complaining of wheel/tire fitment problems, I am not expecting any.

  #57  
Old 07-02-2009, 11:07 PM
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Pedal from Hell finally mounted.


Bracket





I believe this places the pedal in the stock location.

  #58  
Old 07-12-2009, 05:58 PM
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Work is still slow due to foot injury. However I got the small trunk floor patch installed. Now to install the main trunk floor. I had been welding with a TIG welder but decided I should get a tank of Co2 for my MIG since it looks like it will take forever to weld the trunk floor in with TIG. I hope the learning curve for MIG is short. I have only used flux-cored wire to weld thick steel in the past.



I have orderd tires for my 16" wheels. I got super deal on Avon Tech M550 A/S 255/50/16's. They were not the tire I was planning to purchase, but for $50 each they seemed like a good enough deal.

Although not Pontiac related, maybe these picture of one of my other projects won't bore you too much. I finally took my CoupeDeVille for it's first test drive today. It had been almost three years since I last drove the car. There is still alot to do to it. The most urgent thing to do is get an alignment. Everthing in the front end was replaced including conversion to 94-96 impala tubular control arms. I just adjusted tie-rod ends by sight, good enough to drive it to alignment shop.





Engine dyno sheet - 511HP at almost 600 Ft/Lb torque


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  #59  
Old 07-14-2009, 10:09 PM
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Tires were mounted today.

For comparison here is an ebay picture of the 14" wheel/tire



Here are a couple of shots of the 16" wheels with AVON 245/50 tires.

The rear looks like it is higher off the ground compared to the ebay picture, however most of the trunk floor is missing and there is no gas tank either. The missing parts might lower the car




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  #60  
Old 08-11-2009, 08:36 PM
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Fbrown-

I have a pair of big bearing B-body spindles in you need a pair.

Nice progress.

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