[71GP76TA]

Still unable to locate vin on engine. Looks like engine might have been rebuilt a long time ago. The bottom sides of the block look pretty clean. No luck on finding vin on trans either though I didn't spend a ton of time looking. Didn't see it in the usual spot. It does have a COZ 3.73 rear end which is pretty cool.

The trans vin on my '70 Chevelle SS454 is stamped on top of the case. Couldn't find it until I pulled trans to throw a clutch in it.

[wase]

So the block has an EUN stamped in it. Previous owner had the PHS for the car.

My GTO's billing history card included in my PHS packet shows the EUN the car was built with. For my GTO it's easy to compare the EUN on the card to the stamp on the engine block to determine if the car has it's original engine.

Does a 1970 Firebird T/A PHS packet have a billing history card that includes the EUN? If so, easy to compare to determine if the car has it's original as built with factory engine block?

[johnta1]

No BHC for 1970 (or later I believe)

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

1968 is the last year that PHS can supply a BHC for our cars.

[silver79toi]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

Have had two June '69 cast 400 XH coded blocks that were cast with the '70 9799914 casting number (5 motor mount bolt bosses per side). Have viewed several more June '69 dated 400's that were the same. Would be interesting to find out if any late May of '69 400 blocks were also cast as 9799914's.

Even those this is located in 70-73 TA Tech, it's relevant as I have a 69 RA III 4 spd with a Norwood first week of June 2-6 build date (06A) that per the PHS didn't ship for 3 more weeks (6/24/69). It has a WQ stamped block just like the one described with 9799914 casting/ F099 date code and only 2 of the 5 mounting bosses for the motor mounts drilled. The EUN is 0823963 is stamped above the WQ. I have pic's of the block from over a decade ago when the car was blown apart and there is no VIN... I finished the engine, painted it and looked it over and still cannot find a VIN... I asked a well-known industry expert in our hobby and maybe he was having a bad day because he acted like I had insulted his wife, and gruffly told me that what I described as having happened (and confirmed on this thread), was impossible. I know "everyone" will have an opinion, so let's hear it!

[johnta1]

This is in your Bird now?
Does the cowltag and/or the car VIN relate to the block date code?

Have the buildsheet for the car? (hopefully )

[silver79toi]

[QUOTE=johnta1;6446999]This is in your Bird now? Yes sir!
Does the cowltag and/or the car VIN relate to the block date code?

Body(Cowl Tag)

ST69 22337 NOR507905 BDY

TR 208 50 50 PNT

06A D80

Have the buildsheet for the car? (hopefully )

I have the PHS but that's all

[johnta1]

I would say that is the engine for your car?

Being a 69 TA, possibly they had some engines set back for them and the VIN's weren't stamped until known which car it would go to?
Or they put that in if the original engine had a problem on test fire?

Hard to say after all these years.

Hinckley's (?) book - Echoes of Norwood (?) may have something it, but been a while since I read it.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

RE: Silver79toi

The very strangest thing is the casting date of the block F099 June 9 is later than the body build week 06A .
All the blocks heads intakes were cast at PMD in Michigan.
Then cooled machined assembled and shipped out to Norwood complete - minus accessories & carb.

There are about 3 different schools on how to decipher build weeks , but the very latest possibility using any of those methods would be June 7 for the start of the body.
But that was a Saturday , so maybe June 6 was the latest "possible" start.
That is 3 days minimum - BEFORE the molten lava was even poured for the block.

All parts were supposed to be accounted for in the inventory checks and balances before a Buildsheet / Build Order was issued for the car to start.
Mass production assembly lines .

That is probably why it was scoffed at before and insulted that guys wife like it did.

What we don't know is - there are multiple possible scenarios - but no cut & dry verdict can be given.

I wouldn't expect Norwood to play roulette on an expected shipment date of WQ's and start builds on WQ cars before the shipment actually arrived.... but maybe they did for whatever reason.
And it bit them on that group.

Your shipping date June 24 does have enough gap to allow room for some type(s) of error(s) .

[Tellyshavilli]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

RE: Silver79toi

The very strangest thing is the casting date of the block F099 June 9 is later than the body build week 06A .
All the blocks heads intakes were cast at PMD in Michigan.
Then cooled machined assembled and shipped out to Norwood complete - minus accessories & carb.

There are about 3 different schools on how to decipher build weeks , but the very latest possibility using any of those methods would be June 7 for the start of the body.
But that was a Saturday , so maybe June 6 was the latest "possible" start.
That is 3 days minimum - BEFORE the molten lava was even poured for the block.

All parts were supposed to be accounted for in the inventory checks and balances before a Buildsheet / Build Order was issued for the car to start.
Mass production assembly lines .

That is probably why it was scoffed at before and insulted that guys wife like it did.

What we don't know is - there are multiple possible scenarios - but no cut & dry verdict can be given.

I wouldn't expect Norwood to play roulette on an expected shipment date of WQ's and start builds on WQ cars before the shipment actually arrived.... but maybe they did for whatever reason.
And it bit them on that group.

Your shipping date June 24 does have enough gap to allow room for some type(s) of error(s) .

Don’t forget that 06A was used on every June built Firebird and Camaro for the month of June and that’s according to everything I’ve ever found and everything I’ve heard from other sources in the Firebird and Camaro world . So a 06A built car could also realistically been built the last week of June and for some reason they only use 06A stamped tag that month.

[Held for Ransom]

[QUOTE=silver79toi;6447003]

Originally Posted by johnta1

This is in your Bird now? Yes sir!
Does the cowltag and/or the car VIN relate to the block date code?

Body(Cowl Tag)

ST69 22337 NOR507905 BDY

TR 208 50 50 PNT

06A D80

Have the buildsheet for the car? (hopefully )

I have the PHS but that's all

My take, your body was set aside until another run of WQ's were made and shipped to plant. And partial VIN was not stamped. Was the trans. stamped?

[Tellyshavilli]

Originally Posted by silver79toi

Even those this is located in 70-73 TA Tech, it's relevant as I have a 69 RA III 4 spd with a Norwood first week of June 2-6 build date (06A) that per the PHS didn't ship for 3 more weeks (6/24/69). It has a WQ stamped block just like the one described with 9799914 casting/ F099 date code and only 2 of the 5 mounting bosses for the motor mounts drilled. The EUN is 0823963 is stamped above the WQ. I have pic's of the block from over a decade ago when the car was blown apart and there is no VIN... I finished the engine, painted it and looked it over and still cannot find a VIN... I asked a well-known industry expert in our hobby and maybe he was having a bad day because he acted like I had insulted his wife, and gruffly told me that what I described as having happened (and confirmed on this thread), was impossible. I know "everyone" will have an opinion, so let's hear it!

Very possible and definitely sounds legit. Sounds like the well-known industry expert was not an expert after all.

[Held for Ransom]

Originally Posted by Tellyshavilli

Don’t forget that 06A was used on every June built Firebird and Camaro for the month of June and that’s according to everything I’ve ever found and everything I’ve heard from other sources in the Firebird and Camaro world . So a 06A built car could also realistically been built the last week of June and for some reason they only use 06A stamped tag that month.

This, I did not know.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Held for Ransom

This, I did not know.

I used to know it - for about a couple of days after I read it on here Years Ago.
That factoid just won't stick in my head.
Glad we have folks that do recall it as needed !

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Tellyshavilli

.... So a 06A built car could also realistically been built the last week of June and for some reason they only use 06A stamped tag that month.

You are REALLY going to piss off that industry expert, and his wife, with facts like this .

[Formulabruce]

[QUOTE=Held for Ransom;6447075]

Originally Posted by silver79toi

My take, your body was set aside until another run of WQ's were made and shipped to plant. And partial VIN was not stamped. Was the trans. stamped?

I agree 100% makes most sense. And often explains the ship date discussions associated with this scenario.

[silver79toi]

[QUOTE=Held for Ransom;6447075]

Originally Posted by silver79toi

Was the trans. stamped?

Yes the Transmission does have the VIN stamp on it

[silver79toi]

I appreciate all the input guys... somewhat validates what the owner who owned it from 2000-2011 told the guy I bought it from in 2022. I have the E-Bay ad print copy from that seller in 2011 where he asserts this claim based on the car having sat from 1979 until the PO from whom I purchased it, had the engine rebuilt but never installed... I have photos of the engine from 2011 or prior when it was apart and just looking at the short block there is no evidence of the VIN then either... but the same correct WQ and EUN stamps are definitely visible. As for the expert, you'd be shocked if I told you who said it to me, but again, I am not interested in blemishing this guy's reputation and will chalk it up to a bad day, so that's the end of it.

[Tellyshavilli]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

You are REALLY going to piss off that industry expert, and his wife, with facts like this .

I try my best