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THE LOBBY A gathering place. Introductions, sports, showin' off your ride, birthday-anniversary-milestone, achievements, family oriented humor. |
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#1
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RANT -- rear spoilers are junk and I don't understand why
I don't understand why every other rear tail spoiler sold for hondas to acuras to pontiac g8s to teslas is straight and fits the car as it should --- yet some 50+ years later not ONE person out there can make a proper fitting and STRAIGHT not sagging reproduction rear spoiler for a 1969 Trans Am.
I don't get it. Why can't one be made right? Am I asking too much. How hard can it be?? Is their anyone in this industry that can put some pieces together to get this part reproduced STRAIGHT out of the box AND stay that way once mounted? The rear spoilers all look like wet noodles even on most $150,000 Trans Ams. Unbelievable. Just bought another $250 The Parts Place plastic reproduction ABS plastic 1969 Trans Am spoiler and it is at least a 1/4 inch sagged out of the box. The first one I bought about 5 years ago from The Parts Place, also hollow ABS plastic, actually came out of the box mostly straight, but after some miles sagged like the old fiberglass one I was replacing for that same reason. I am not a plastic guy, above my pay grade. But what the h*ll is so hard in making a spoiler these days that is STRAIGHT? How does every car from mustangs to camaros to challengers sold today with plastic spoilers have straight ones new and reproduced that last forever and don't sag -- yet five decades later we are left with Parts Place junk as our only option. Rant over. |
#2
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I don’t really know how thick your spoiler is but if it’s hollow, could you somehow add a rectangular piece of aluminum inside to make it stay straight? Light but rigid. If it’s abs or fg it should be easy to rework.
Just a thought…..
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" Darksiders Rule "
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#3
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I am now trying to put expandable foam inside to give it some support. Also have some carbon fiber stingers that guitars use to try.
But still the thing is so sagged, building it up on top will ruin the contour as the spoiler is thicker in front and tapers thinner at rear. A 1/4" sag is bad (and gets worse once used!) not as bad out of the box as the fiberglass junk Ames and others use to sell over a decade ago. |
#4
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My guess is they’re as good as a $250 spoiler can be. They’re producing them to a price point that most customers are willing to pay and and still make a profit on them.
Now perhaps a $1000 spoiler should be pretty much perfect with no sag, but since most of their customers aren’t willing to pay what it costs for a robust and perfect part they’ll keep selling the substandard $250 part. Quality costs money, $250 is too cheap to put out a high quality reproduction spoiler and make it profitable. The market for ‘69 T/A spoilers is minuscule in comparison to the import market, they’re able to invest in quality and get a return on it with high volume sales along with keeping the price reasonable.
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1964 Tempest Coupe LS3/4L70E/3.42 1964 Le Mans Convertible 421 HO/TH350/2.56 2002 WS6 Convertible LS1/4L60E/3.23 |
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#5
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Was thinking something like this.
https://www.mcmaster.com/6546K47/ Only 1/4” thick by 1/2” wide. Maybe fit two inside.
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" Darksiders Rule "
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#6
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I bought two original 69 TA rear spoilers and had Super Car Specialties restore them. They turned out near perfect.
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...highlight=wing
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1969 TA RAIII M40 Auto Cameo White/ Std Blue Int 1970 TA RAIII M21 4-spd Lucy Blue/Std Black Int 1971 TA 455 HO M22 4-Spd Lucy Blue/Deluxe White Int |
#7
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Thanks. Don't need OEM and would get a carbon fiber one done for that price if anything. But yes I know they do top notch work. Saw some photos of them working on a spoiler to get it right for that prototype Trans Am.
But man, why can't The Parts Place or others just get the plastic mold done right and not make a sagging rear spoiler. I don't get it. |
#8
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I do not think it is as much the mold as aging as you noted earlier.
Think of your wooden garden gate; after a couple years it starts to sag. I did this once (screwed and glued - still sagged), the next time used a steel frame - no sag. |
#9
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Out of the box brand new it sags! Garbage mold. Unacceptable.... yet we all are forced to accept it because it is "only $300".
How hard it is to make flat. See pic. |
#10
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Youre correct. If a company went to the trouble to have a mold made and then produce the spoiler( which Im sure isnt easy) it wouldnt take much more to make sure ,with a little R&D that the product will stand the test of time. Where it is a unique item Im sure most people that want one would spend a little more on quality. When buying aftermarket restoration parts for my gto,,I asked around and did a little research and in the end bought the best quality part I was looking for from the various vendors,and yes most of the time that item costs more money but I dont want junk..
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72 lemans,455 e-head, UD 255/263 solid flat,3.73 gears,,,10" 4400 converter,, 6.68 at 101.8 mph,,1.44 60 ft.2007 (cam 271/278 roller)9"CC.4.11gear 6.41 at 106.32 mph 1.42 60 ft.(2009) SOLD,SOLD 1970 GTO 455 4 speed #matching,, 3.31 posi.Stock manifolds. # 64 heads.A factory mint tuquoise ,69' judge stripe car. 8.64 @ 87.3 mph on slippery street tires.Bad 2.25 60ft.Owned since 86' |
#11
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Quote:
When plastic is molded, it shrinks in ways that cannot be completely predicted ahead of time. Lots of factors affect that.....temperature of the mold, temperature of the plastic, where it is injected into the mold, how long it resides in the mold before being kicked out, etc). If the initial part comes out with a sag in it, the only solution is to make a new mold with a bit of the opposite distortion in it, so it will (hopefully) shrink to the correct shape. Making each mold is a $25-50k expenditure. I feel your frustration but you're a victim of needing a part with low enough volume that the manufacturer didn't feel brave enough to put the expense of a second (and perhaps a third) mold into the part price. Eric
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"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" noted philosopher Mike Tyson Life begins at the end of your comfort zone. “The mind, once stretched by a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions.” |
#12
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Bought a rear wing for a 70 GTO 2 years ago. Was shocked at how light and flimsy it was. I entertained filling it with expanding foam to help stiffen it up, but said screw it and put it on anyways.
All these parts are made offshore as cheaply as possible. Making the spoiler with a slightly thicker/denser plastic material would cost next to nothing, as the molds are already made. The expensive part of bringing these parts to production is over. But we'll continue to get the cheapest quality part at the most profitable price for the sellers, so dont expect anything to change.
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"Those poor souls have made the fatal mistake of surrounding us. Now we can fire in any direction" 1970 Trans Am RAIII 4 speed 1971 Trans Am 5.3 LM7 1977 Trans Am W72 Y82 1987 Grand National |
#13
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Unfortunately, the initial selection of material is integral to the mold design.
Switching to a different plastic would require a new mold; since the shrinkage rates are entirely different. To give you an idea, I have some data for nylon 6/6. I'm guessing that a deck spoiler is about 40" wide?? If so, the shrinkage can be anywhere from 3/4" to 1". In other words, the mold has to be an inch longer than final dimension so it will shrink to the correct size. Molding plastic in the US is actually very economical. Most plastic things have the molds designed here, molds made in China and then the actual part production is done here. Eric
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"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" noted philosopher Mike Tyson Life begins at the end of your comfort zone. “The mind, once stretched by a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions.” |
#14
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We"ve seen some parts that were so poorly made that Im sure they didnt sell many at all. I would think that particular project part ended in a probable loss of money in the end to the company. If that was the outcome why even bother in the first place. Throw something to the consumer and hopefully it sticks to the wall. Not my idea of how to make a quality piece. Just put in 20+ hrs or so of rebuilding the spoiler to make it respectable,,,,great.
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72 lemans,455 e-head, UD 255/263 solid flat,3.73 gears,,,10" 4400 converter,, 6.68 at 101.8 mph,,1.44 60 ft.2007 (cam 271/278 roller)9"CC.4.11gear 6.41 at 106.32 mph 1.42 60 ft.(2009) SOLD,SOLD 1970 GTO 455 4 speed #matching,, 3.31 posi.Stock manifolds. # 64 heads.A factory mint tuquoise ,69' judge stripe car. 8.64 @ 87.3 mph on slippery street tires.Bad 2.25 60ft.Owned since 86' |
#15
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I got mine from Classic a few years back, it still sags in the middle...just the nature of the beast I guess. Not saying it's right, but I haven't seen a straight on for awhile.
This pic is out in the So Cal sun, so it sages worse in heat. Of course, now that I'm at 5500 ft elevation, it's so cold it can't sag that much. |
#16
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Wow, I could not live with that sag. That was how my fiberglass one was. Makes one consider running a "camero" ........errrrr GM...... trunk lid tail spoiler on it. doh.
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#17
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Jeez I hate autocorrect!
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#18
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Quote:
Originals were " glass" which doesn't bend much under UV. They are technically stronger than the parts place offering. Probably the best thing to use to reproduce these is reinforced Carbon Fiber and SPI Primer ( max induction= max UV protection.) There is a member on this forum in Canada making noses, and hoods in CF. may be worth a shout out. I cannot recall his name. Based on prices. I would guess a nice CF piece that only needs finishing would cost $700.
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"The Future Belongs to those who are STILL Willing to get their Hands Dirty" .. my Grandfather |
#19
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Just remember this... NOTHING made in China will be perfect. Not even if designed here and made there. It's a no-brainer. Even if made here it might not be perfect.
How do the originals look if you can find a good one?
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Gary Get in, ShuT Up, Hang On! Member of the Baltimore Built Brotherhood MY GTO built 4th Week of March 1966 "Crusin' Is Not A Crime" Keep yer stick on the ice. |
#20
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Original 69 Trans Am rear air foils sagged too. I have owned a few and each sagged in the middle. I had repaired all three by slicing open the tops in multiple areas to add reenforcement then body working them.
Tim |
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