04 GTO question

[Brian Baker]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by pont3:

I have but one question. Why is it that every thread started on this car always, and I mean ALWAYS result with the haters and NON-OWNERS chiming in and (1) ruining a legitimate inquiry, and (2) disputing everything the OWNERS state? The haters see a car run, have no idea who is driving it, and reply in disbelief to an actual owner stating his own personal experience with HIS car.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

When you have someone that boasts they have a 12 second car (any car, doesn't matter what it is), and when asked to bring it out and prove it, they come up with lame excuses like "my air filter is dirty" or "I have bad gas in it"...you can rest assured that they are FULL OF *****.

Where I come from, we call these types of people "posers". Some do, some don't, and then there's "posers".

[bonneville Joe]

3 cars running the same exact times isn't speculative, that's a fact.

[JSAauto]

Working with alot of these LS1/LS2 style engines, especially in the tuning dept with LS1 edit, I can tell you the stock programming is a huge problem. Especially in the 6.0 litres.

[455HOGT37]

It is also a fact that the cars will put out around 300 to 350 HP to the rear wheels on a chassis dyno bone stock (depending on the year). Unlike the track, dynos require no particular skill to achive the "best" numbers for a given car. This "fact" is undeniable. What does a stock real GTO put to the rear wheels? I doubt there are very many that will throw 350HP to the rollers. Try a high compression Ram Air IV engine on todays fuel without pulling any timing out. See the problem here? You have to compare apples to apples. Taking the prepped "ringer" magazine times from the sixties and comparing them to the local yahoos at the local track is not even fair.

I'm as hardcore "old school" as any of you, but I also have driven my 05 wonder from down under for almost a thousand miles, and I can tell you that the heat really kills the performance. The difference is, the computer pulls timing out so the engine lives while the RA IV holes a piston or two. Even if 14.5 is representative for the Holden (which is clearly not the case), that is on par with most late 60's GTO's that I have owned/ridden in. So at least give credit that a car with a smaller engine and the same weight can equal the performance of the "typical" 60's Pontiac GTO... while running the air, cd player and getting 25 MPG.

This new breed may not be a Pontiac GTO to many of us, but it is an impressive package from a purely "technical requirements" point of view.

[Mr_GTO]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brian Baker:

Chris is so overzealous where the new GTO is concerned, that he can't see it for its faults, few they may be. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Overzealous? Maybe. Styling is always subjective. Performance isn't. As we learn that altitude is 4200 feet and in the 80's it's no surprise that the cars were running slower and a blower GTP might keep up with it. It makes all the sense in the world now.

And if you think all 04 GTO's run in the 14's, go see NickV's 04 run. See, sometimes a GOOD driver can squeeze good numbers out of it.

[lethal-428-lemans]

ok I take they should run in the 13's with good conditions. What about question 2, Did the 04's have scoops & spoilers? is the picture an 04 or 05?

What do the new GTO's weigh in at?

455HOGT said "a car with a smaller engine and the same weight can equal the performance of the "typical" 60's Pontiac GTO"
I didn't think one was that heavy. My Lemans even with a lot of things removed still is 3880#

[Jeff R]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lethal-428-lemans:
What about question 2, Did the 04's have scoops & spoilers? is the picture an 04 or 05?

What do the new GTO's weigh in at? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The stock '04s had no scoops, and the stock spoiler is just like the '05.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Originally posted by Jeff R.:
As for the car pictured, it's got the Special Appearance Package which for '04 consisted of recessed front grills, different spoiler and hood with scoops. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

'05 curb weight is 3725 lbs based on Pontiac's website, but that's probably with no gas in the tank. The '04s were 50lbs heavier.

[455HOGT37]

Skip says his is 3950# ready to race... It's a porker. It is also a lot bigger than people seem to realize.

[bonneville Joe]

How much of the new GTOs are fiberglass and how much are metal? The 4th gen F body cars had alot of fiberglass panels on them.

[455HOGT37]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bonneville Joe:
How much of the new GTOs are fiberglass and how much are metal? The 4th gen F body cars had alot of fiberglass panels on them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Typical rubber front and rear facias, the rest is steel.

[David Jones]

[TinInjun]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
As we learn that altitude is 4200 feet and in the 80's it's no surprise that the cars were running slower and a blower GTP might keep up with it. It makes all the sense in the world now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You obviously have no expirence with a blower car if you think that. Heat and humitity have the same effects on a blown engine as they do on a NA engine. Maybe more so a problem with a blown engine. You see blowers make heat, lots of it, and heat kills power. I'll bet my intake temps were double that of the GTO's. Maybe Tom Vaught can chime in here and explain it better. There is a reason Ford uses intercoolers on their blown engines.
My times were off .2 to .3 tenths. MPH was also down 3 mph. You don't see me making any excuses. We were all on the same playing field. I'm not bashing the GTO here either. Just getting tired of people making excuses when it doesn't run what they think it should. Its tough defending the GTO to the Ford guys when they see what it really runs at the track. They know I'm a die hard Pontiac guy and they hit me with both barrells when they see its real world performance. I have to just suck it up and take the abuse. Also it doesn't help sales of the car when John Doe sitting in the stands sees what it runs.

[pont3]

Fact is, event though the GTO is designed for the street, it acquits itself quite well against many modded cars. Additionally, it lends itself to moddability that can mean terror on the track too.

However, owning a GTO does not automatically make one a better driver, especially on the track. Funny how every time a Stang gets toasted by the Goat, the response from every Ford owner is, "with a better driver", or "the guy don't know how to drive it". It's conceiveable that certain GTO drivers may not know how to extract the max on the track, even three of them on the same day. Was that the case? I don't know but I've seen enough low and mid 13 second timeslips to know that 14s are not the norm.

I don't personally race my car, therefore its quarter mile times were not a factor in my decision to purchase. That it does well is a bonus.

The GTP does not have torque management intervening the power delivery. Doesn't produce enough torque(in stock form) to threaten the drivetrain. Software is available for the '04s to eliminate it, but driveline parts, unless beefed up, will suffer.

The GTOs are difficult to launch and it takes practice to determine the ideal formula.

[455HOGT37]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TinInjun:
...Its tough defending the GTO to the Ford guys when they see what it really runs at the track. They know I'm a die hard Pontiac guy and they hit me with both barrells when they see its real world performance... QUOTE]

What do you consider "real world performance"? I felt the same way when I started attending muscle car shootout type events in the late 80's... Perfectly restored RA IV GTO's, Stage 1 Buicks, SD TA's, Hemi Roadrunners... All running high 14's and low 15's! Quite a letdown... Did they lie when they told me these things had 400 HP?

Fortunately today we have chassis dynos and they are what they are. Consider this: The Holden throws 350HP to the rollers and weighs 3900#... You do the math. Not running in the 13's can't be blamed on the car.

Now having said all that, after reading the posts at LS1GTO you would think this is the baddest car that has ever been produced... It certainly is not. I get the impression that most of these guys are stepping out of Honda Civics into this car, and that might lead them to believe this car is the last word in fast, but who could blame them?

But sticking to the facts, the Holden makes XXX horsepower and weighs XXXX. What it should run can be found with a calculator.

[Jeff R]

Owning a new GTO and taking it to the track doesn't make you an experienced drag racer or guarantee you'll run low 13's. I don't take mine to the track (don't really feel the need), but I do take it out on county roads around my house and open her up. Stock 0-60 times for an '05 are supposed to be 4.6 to 4.7 seconds. I've personally done 4.3...not every time mind you, I'm inconsistent and sometimes I'm downright slow. But my point is it's all about the driver with this car. Launching is critical as you drag racers well know, but with IRS and Torque Management this is not an easy car to launch consistently. Wheel hop will kill your times, especially with a 6-speed and stock tires. As for the times boasted on LS1GTO.com? Who knows if they're telling the truth unless they've posted video to back up their claims? (many do by the way) But this is, after all, the internet, and everyone (even here on PY) could be blowing smoke up your skirt. I take it all with a grain of salt, and I enjoy the hell out of my cars no matter what anyone says.

[Mr_GTO]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TinInjun:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
As we learn that altitude is 4200 feet and in the 80's it's no surprise that the cars were running slower and a blower GTP might keep up with it. It makes all the sense in the world now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You obviously have no expirence with a blower car if you think that. Heat and humitity have the same effects on a blown engine as they do on a NA engine. Maybe more so a problem with a blown engine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was actually talking about the ALTITUDE and how the blowers would benefit better than the NA cars. Also, I do know about them, I used to race my fathers GTP, right off the street onto the track in NH it ran 14.8 bone stock with 60K miles on it.

[6567GTO]

I for one will be looking forward to seeing them run at Norwalk. I wish i could get my hands on '05 stick. I'd make it run...

[Skip Fix]

At the PSN Brian I have a 13.58@99.85 one day (Friday night test and tune)and a 13.644@100.07 and a 13.96 @99.52 the next day. But lots of 14.3s @97 as the day warmed. Same launch technique every time, in Drive so it did the shifting.Mid may Dallas so not cool air.

Moroso has 100mph as a 13.00, and 300hp for a 3950lbs car.Its and 04, and chassis dynoed 282.It's a definite mid 13s car sometimes.

If I can get my daughter off the computer I'll be glad to scan the time slips for you.Got 15 of them that weekend if you need to see a real one.They are just all over the place.

I think I've got enough seat time at the drags to launch consistently,2.1s usually the car just does what it wants mid range because of the computer.If you do light them up(I did very first run hard)it does wheel hop hard .

[lethal-428-lemans]

A friend stopped in at our familly picnic yesterday with his 04. Black on Black 6 speed. Good looking car for the body lines. As 455HOGT37 said "It is also a lot bigger than people seem to realize". With it setting next to my Lemans is see that now. I wanted to take it a spin but I had a couple drinks and thought I better not.

(sorry the pic sucks, it was getting dark and this was the best I could get)

[Goathead]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">At the PSN Brian I have a 13.58@99.85 one day (Friday night test and tune)and a 13.644@100.07 and a 13.96 @99.52 the next day. But lots of 14.3s @97 as the day warmed. Same launch technique every time, in Drive so it did the shifting. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And this man can drive, trust me....