[T/A Daniel]

As you may know I sold a tripower with the carbs to a guy on here and shipped it to him and insured it for $500. Well when he recieved it the box had been dropped on one corner and the corner of the intake where two of the bolt holes are was broken off along with part of the runner. Well he filed a claim on it for $200 (what a typical tripower manifold goes for), took the carbs off and packaged it up and they picked it up. The UPS Store I shipped it from called me and told me to pick it up and said they were waiting on paper work from UPS. When I picked it up the box looked liked it had been around the country 3 times in a log truck!!! They called me a few days later and said UPS had declined the claim for insufficent packaging . I had everything wrapped in foam and then about another inch of foam all around it. I told them this and the woman said she was gonna call them back. Well I called them today and they said they denied it again and said it should have 4 inches of material on every side of it . That would increase the package size by 16 inches!!! I ask how are you suppose to to protect a package from a drop hard enough to break an inch of cast steel??? And what do you buy insurance on a package if they are not gonna honor it???? So needless to say Fed Ex is gonna get my business from now on and I am gonna tell everyone I know not to use UPS anymore. Sorry for the rant just had to get this off my chest.

[T/A Daniel]

As you may know I sold a tripower with the carbs to a guy on here and shipped it to him and insured it for $500. Well when he recieved it the box had been dropped on one corner and the corner of the intake where two of the bolt holes are was broken off along with part of the runner. Well he filed a claim on it for $200 (what a typical tripower manifold goes for), took the carbs off and packaged it up and they picked it up. The UPS Store I shipped it from called me and told me to pick it up and said they were waiting on paper work from UPS. When I picked it up the box looked liked it had been around the country 3 times in a log truck!!! They called me a few days later and said UPS had declined the claim for insufficent packaging . I had everything wrapped in foam and then about another inch of foam all around it. I told them this and the woman said she was gonna call them back. Well I called them today and they said they denied it again and said it should have 4 inches of material on every side of it . That would increase the package size by 16 inches!!! I ask how are you suppose to to protect a package from a drop hard enough to break an inch of cast steel??? And what do you buy insurance on a package if they are not gonna honor it???? So needless to say Fed Ex is gonna get my business from now on and I am gonna tell everyone I know not to use UPS anymore. Sorry for the rant just had to get this off my chest.

[carbking]

Daniel - sorry that you had the problem, and I cannot help with your existing problem, but can maybe help you for future shipments.

First, before settling on FedEx (which has an excellent reputation, as does UPS), READ THE FINE PRINT IN THEIR CONTRACT ABOUT "COLLECTIBLES"). Your tripower would be considered a collectible.

Now, let me first say that I have no stock in UPS; however, we have shipped well over 100 tripowers and dual quads, all via UPS with zero problems. We have shipped over 50,000 packages with UPS since 1984 with a total of 6 problems (4 were lost packages, which eventually turned up). We ship the tripowers and dual quads complete (manifold, carbs, linkage, fuel lines, fittings, etc. but without the aircleaner(s)).

This is our method:

First we make a pair of "artificial cylinder heads" out of 2x4 and bolt these to the manifold.

Next step is to acquire a box with at least 4 inches clearance all the way around both sides and front, and at least 6 inches higher than the top of the carbs.

We then cut a piece of 3/4 inch plywood to fit inside the bottom of the box.

We affix the 2x4's to the plywood in the center of the box.

Next, we cut 1/8 inch paneling to fit the four sides and the top.

We insert the 4 paneling sides, and fill the box with crushed newspaper (NEVER FOAM OR PLASTIC PEANUTS ON ANYTHING THIS HEAVY)! It takes about an hour and a half to wad up this many old newspapers.

We then place the last piece of paneling on top, place a copy of the customers invoice on the paneling, and close the box.

The last step is to tape the box with nylon filiment straping tape. Circle the box in all directions with never more than 6 inches between tape circles.

The final box weights about 100 pounds for a Pontiac tripower(about 70 for the tripower and 30 for the packaging).

Again, sorry for your loss.

Jon.

[Larry Navarro]

Just a word of constructive critisism.
Don't think for a minute that FedEX wouldn't be any different than UPS when it comes to damage claims.
My wife is a UPS employee and knows about situations like this.
She says that if the package was taken to a UPS customer counter, the clerk should have checked it first and claimed that the packaging was insufficient, before accepting it.
If this is a case where it was checked(at the counter) and accepted(by a UPS clerk), then UPS should be held liable for the claim. You must have the proof.
She suggests that you go one step higher and talk to a UPS "account executive" and file a "claim dispute".
Now,
If the package was left for a driver to retrieve, like at a business or office, then its going to be very difficult to "plead your case".
If you saw how parcels are handled(this goes for FedEX too), you would put alot more effort in protecting the contents within a cardboard box. Ever notice in an airport terminal when the luggage is coming down chutes and conveyors? The same techniques are applied in processing parcels.
A cast-iron manifold in a flimsy cardboard box doesn't stand a chance.
The stampings on that box tell the whole story.
25LBS NET...."tiny crispies"
How much did the manifold weigh?
That box should have been double wall rated and packed for more stability.
Daniel, I'm not trying to be an "arss"....just looking at the whole deal in a logical approach. Its not just a UPS thing, as it could happen with any shipping co.

[Larry Navarro]

Hi,This is Larry's wife Dana. I just wanted to see if I could help. Keep your box and packing material together. Call The UPS Store and let them know you would like to speak with the Account Executive who services their store. They can arrange this for you. If he denies the claim after speaking with him, ask for his manager. Be ready to supply something showing the value of the merchandise, Ebay invoice, whatever. I am sorry for the trouble you are experiencing. Hope this helps a little. It may take some persistance! 4 inches of packing is considered the norm. Always double box anything fragile or heavy.

[gobrdgo]

UPS delivered my 66 tri power a couple years ago with a broken carburetor stud, (broken carb), The insurance is worthless, they always use their catchall "insufficient packaging". Bummer but what can you do?

[GreysonWinfieldEsq]

I would deal direct with UPS. There # is
800-241-3138.

[thepontiacman]

Sending out a letter stating insufficient packaging is standard procedure . I have had good luck over the years with only 2 claims against UPS.
I fought them both times and won. Items were insured and claims were finally paid.

I have shipped glass and never had anything damaged until the 2 mentioned above.

Always read fine print and then stand up for your rights.

Take extra precautions as stated above by other member and you shouldn't have problem.

Hate to see people have to go through this.

I still prefer UPS. Just started shipping by Greyhound Bus.

[Larry Navarro]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Bummer but what can you do? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Follow the examples outlined by carbking and they won't have to tell you "insufficient packaging".

[carbking]

In the 6 instances where we had problems (see previous post in this thread), UPS paid off with absolutely no problems whatsoever.

Incidentally, when shipping something heavy like this, we go to the local appliance center and start with a box designed for a dishwasher or range, or you get the picture. Thick corregated cardboard.

Hope it works out for you.

Jon.

[mike nixon]

fed ex is worse than ups in a situation like this. i won't use them unless i absolutley have not other choice.

sorry for you're trouble and i hope you get it resolved.

mike

[Colin]

Yeah, I have recieved packages delivered by UPS and they look like they have been around the world several times, thrown around, kicked, dropped........whatever. EVERYTHING that I have had that was delivered by FedEx looks like it was just packaged and never sent anywhere.

[SCOTT ESTERLE]

What was the burst strength on that box. If the burst strength was low & the parts were heavy UPS will deny that everytime. Based on what i see from that outside of that box it does not appear that the box that was used was sufficient enough to handle the weight inside. Ups has a drop test i think it is like 5 feet onto concrete & the box must sustain the fall without damaging the internals. Have that store check with there local rep like Larry's wife suggested.

[gto1967]

I had a very similar problem with a tripower I bought off of e-bay.
The package did arrive looking like it traveled the world and was dropped out of a 747.Needless to say, it was broken in many spots.Contacted UPS and got the same story "insufficient packaging, claim denied".Also contacted the seller and he was taken by surprise as he said when he packed the unit, it was bolted to 2x4 wood and he had made a cradle for it.Well when it arrived, the wood was all gone and all that was left was a flimsy cardboard box. This fired up the seller who then proceeded to storm down to UPS and have a talk with them.Luckily, the UPS guy who knows him, remembers the day the seller brought that particular package in for shipment and thereby the claim was honored and I received my money back! Took a few weeks but I was extremely happy that this e-Bay seller went to bat for me!

[Rugratman]

UPS : if you sound it out, it sounds like " OOPS "

I am sometimes amazed that the stuff I ordered is not smashed beyond use. But I will give PY, Summit and Jeg's props for good packing. I just got in a new trans pan from Summit, The box looked like it was used in the movie with Jim Carrey, Ace Ventura, ....I love the opening seen when he f*cks up the box on purpose,....But thanks to good packing all was well. They throw them around, they really don't care about it, They just figure that it's insured. I made the delivery guy wait while I opened it, BEFORE I signed for it.

[lethal-428-lemans]

I ship as much as I can USPS Priority mail.
Cost is way less than fed-ex or ups. The best part is it only takes 2 - 3 days to get your item.

Check your local post office for guide lines on shipping. I sent an Edelbrock intake in the factory box taped well and it only cost like $10.00

Patrick

[Jack Peters]

Spent 12 years with an airline and still do training for several carriers including Cargo Carriers. I do hazardous materials training. They don't always treat those items well.

I have been to the Sort in Memphis, TN for FEDEX. Most of it is mechanical and it is like the Post Office and boxes are knocked off a conveyor and down a chute before being hand loaded into the containers that go on the aircraft.

Time is money and it is more important to get the aircraft out on time and pay the claim than to delay the plane 10 min. At a cost of probably over $5,000 per hour a 6 minute delay is $500 to them. I was probably hired for my size 12 shoes and strong back not the college education.

Always check the burst test on the bottom of the box and make sure the box is about twice the size of the item.

That being said, we (the airline) was taken to small claims court and lost on an item that was received damaged and noted on the airwaybill. The judge told us that if we accept it we are liable for it. If it isn't packed properly don't take it.

Just my .02.

[RixRide]

Interesting commentary! I was the unlucky receipient of the tripower. I have no issue with TA Daniel, as he has been upfront, honest, and more than helpful. Here is my dilemma.......I paid for the tripower, paid for the shipping and insurance, and I'm out the manifold. UPS does not give any information to the receiver at all. If TA Daniel didn't keep me posted, I'd have no info at all. I note there is a UPS employee who commented on this topic,and I'm wondering why the policy excludes the receiver when it comes to claim info? If this situation isn't resolved with a claim payment, whose responsibility is it to make it right with the buyer? I trust that TA Daniel will make it right, but I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts on what their solution would be with a buyer in a similar situation. I dealt with another PY member a year ago on a similar situation. He emailed that he would reimburse me for the damage to a tripower carb airhorn when UPS denied the claim for insufficient packing (believe me, it was definitely insufficient), and I'm still waiting. So much for honor..................

[Larry Navarro]

From the UPS employee, re: exclusion by UPS. If you have the shippers account number and the tracking number, UPS will update you on the status of the claim. Just call 1 800 742 5877,press 0. As for any dispute, that does have to be initiated by the shipper. Once it is shipped thru an agent such as The UPS Store the dispute should be handled through that specific store. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[lil64gto]

I am a buyer for a company that manufacures cylindrical connectors. We spend around 10 million dollars a year to have components shipped in and complete connectors and components out. By far UPS is a much better carrier than Fed Ex and Fed Ex is our preferred next day carrier.

We experience far more late shipments with Fed Ex than UPS. In fact I had some diodes, that go into a missle guidence connector, that were shipped for Saturday Delivery last week that were lost and not delivered till Tuesday.

Don't give up on UPS quite yet. All though we do not do business with USPS, my wife who is the traffic coordinator for Amphenol, says that USPS is the best service for your money, but not dependable enough.

Good luck on your claim. Remember that the first answer is always going to be NO or Not Responsible. Fight it and get what is rightfully owed to you.

Jim