[roadrage david]

Saterday me and my frind Juri disided to go driving around in his 71 455 formula with500+ hp. (at first the car was a street strip only , but slowly i convinst him that road ore high way speeding is a league of its own . so over the winter some needed changes where done) we drove to a place where we could go flat out and take corners and drift without the cops being presend and ore catsh up on us becuase there are no on ore off exits .man did we have a blast!!!! constandly acserating upto 125 miles per hour . we did miss a 4th gear as the car still hase a th400 . the torque of that 455 ez can handle 1 ore 2 more gears, as it iz we did it with 3 gears . on the way back we whent wild and catsht up a Yamaha race bike who we blasted by and scared the living day lights out of him with the 3 inch x pipe and the 14 inch goeligh xelerater mufflers . we saw him stunned out and come out of shock and opening up his mashine and take on the chalenge . on this particulare road there are 2 tunnels to drive tru and the sound of the car and the bike together was awesome . he tried to pas us on the right lane, but faild due to a bit of trafic . whe whent back and forward more then ones , witch viseble took toll on his strenght keeping his bike under control . in the end he was waveing and giveing thumbs up and was kinda chearing us on lolololol . we emtyd the full fuel tank in less the a hour drive , witch costs a 150% more then filling it in the usa!!!! but man did we have a blast .ps forgive my spelling!!!

[Silver Judge]

Hello Roadrage,
It's always entertaining to read your posts about bad ass Pontiacs in Holland and the reactions that you get when you're hammering the throttle down long wide streets or in this case on the highways. Yes, the sound of a pontiac engine with 500+ HP through a 3 inch exhaust inside a tunnel is something that I really like too, it's flat out wicked !! I know because I've done that too with my 500+ HP Judge. This is a great story about showing even a high performance motorcycle owner that detroit iron is mighty tough !

I believe that there's a time and a place for this kind of driving and it's not usually within the city limits of course so I know that you and your friend Juri are, while having fun, also being responsible and not putting other people in harm's way.

Have you and Juri ever looked at actual sanctioned road racing opportunities on the road race tracks in your part of the world ? This is a subject that fascinates me, driving old GTO or Firebird or Lemans automobiles that have been set up to handle great on curves and stop very quickly. I have always taken great interest in any articles old or new about Pontiacs in Nascar (back in the early '60's) or in SCCA Trans Am style racing. There was an article in HOT ROD magazine a few months ago about a guy in the state of New York that drove a '67 Chevelle (ugh, I know, Chebby). Anyway, this chevelle would beat the pants off very expensive lamborghinis, porsches, and ferraris on a very difficult high speed road course. The owner of the Chevelle was running big block power and had the suspension heavily modified with nascar style spindles, and other EXTREME duty parts from companies that work on the Nascar types of cars in either North Carolina or South Carolina. The article detailed one track session where the chevelle was passing a lamborghini and a ferrari at over 170 MPH !! How about a '67 Firebird or a '64 GTO with that kind of performance ?? All I can say is..I LIKE IT.

Here is a shot I took last month at Pacific Raceways in Seattle. The corvettes you see are about to lap the slower camaro and white ford GT-350. This race was a fundraiser for Children's Hospital and featured many corvettes, mustangs, camaros, Shelby GT 350s, a couple of ford falcons, one lone plymouth barracuda. During this race, a track record was set by the Chevy v8 powered Lola car, what a beautiful machine. The Lola was clocked with a radar gun doing 164+ MPH. If you'd like to see a shot of the Lola, I think I have one, let me know and I'll post it.
Cheers,
Bruce M.

[roadrage david]

Silver Judge mij own 68 firebird hase all the new goodies availeble today to go 160/170 miles per hour . when i talk to people who dragrace only , they seem to be a bit ignorend ore not willingly to understand . thing is the formula was is 1/4 street set up . it lacks the 4,th gear it runns hot as soon as you drive it flat out afther a couple of min stok disk brake system is very limited . nevertheless we had lots of funn . ofcours we keep it safe . thats why whe whent out of touwn to a industrial highway part very close to the coast .anyway building a 500+hp car that can runn longer periods of time at high speeds is more costly but mutch beter safer build then when you runn a street strip car . but the funnfactor payback is tenfold . i like the track picture its like the transam raceing series of the past . my mecanic is raceing a 68 camaro on the race tracks against mercs bmw porches renauls ecetera hes not the fastest , but not the slowest eather . its very nice to see him compeat in the middle, with his low budged racer . origenaly i was planing to build my 68 bird to enter the cannon ball raliegh europe!! a 6 day evend going tru holland belgium frenche spain, back tru french into italy visiting the ferrari plant then one dash back to amsterdam holland. winner takes it all . the more ecsotic the car was/is the more chansh you got to enter the race . the max amount of cars where 100. and the costs would be 10.000 euro you could take 1 passenger with you . and only the last dash from italy was the actual race . the other days where fast funn driving sleeping in 4 star hotels with lots of food and soda lololol . on the frensh toll roads and spanish highways altho oficialy not alouwd people drive 140/ 175 miles a hour all day!! i did a 2200 kilometer distands in 15 hours!! . altho the above mention examples are kinda exstream . the couple of hours myself and juri had where just as funn ... i have included a picture of a camaro road/ race track racer . altho not a pontiac, and haveing a wing that could keep a jumbo jet on the ground its kinda like whant im building

[roadrage david]

superbird

[Silver Judge]

Yes, I agree that a lot more needs to go into the road race setup then the quarter mile setup in many cases. Think BIG RED Camaro, and all the other bad ass cars that compete, for example, in the Silver State Classic in Nevada. Cannonball Europe sounds like huge fun ! 4 star hotels, great meals, relaxing saunas, then the driving. But for 10,000 Euros, that should include lodging, meals, massages, and everything I'd say.

How you managed to make your 22oo km trip in 15 hours, I'll never figure out....wait, I know...you had your driver's side turn signal on the whole way, right ??

[roadrage david]

hahaha the 10.000 cuvers all!!! ecsept speeding tickets and gasoline and yes your right de drivers side turn signal is on all the time , i drove a e500 merc to do the 2200 km .... i belive i saw the silver state classic race on discovery channel aint it 96 km ore 60 miles . it was awesome to watchs . i know about the big red and i tought pontiac schould have one to. nameing it the big green witch im building now!!

[uneasyrider]

I know exactly what you mean about the fun factor of building a car that will take a corner well and hauls butt down the highway. That's exactly what I built this for. It should do 160-170mph with the 2.73 rear gears and 26.5inch diameter tires at 6,000rpm.

[roadrage david]

Super cool uneasyrider!!!!!!!!! any special things done to your car!!!!!!

[transam_kahuna]

Nice cars guys!..sounds cool roadrage..luv to do a euro style top end race...if you go back thru the old topics in the best pontiac stories you'll see my topic of "ultimate top end running"..has pics of my car "big blue"..I had originally set it up for the annual Ferrari hillclimb held twice a year near my town..its a five mile up hill course with minimal gaurd rails..has some 400 foot+ drop-off's!..my car is an 1978 Trans am set up with a 1970 GTO judge ram air IV,doug nash five speed and herb adams suspension setup and 4 wheel disc brakes...the hillclimb course has 25+ curves and a apx 2000 ft elevation gain over its 5 mile length...my best time up was 4 minutes 31 sec..not too bad for the first time...then I caught the top end bug...the hill climb set up with 2.73 gears was good for apx 165 mph or so..the fastest I visually saw was 157 mph..amazing that the old 78 400 engine saw 5000 rpm redline once or twice which worked out to apx 145 mph....but now with ram air IV enignes bringing so much money "big blue" has been retired to car shows and brief blasts to 130...so now I'm going to build an 1970 Trans am for the Silver state and bonneville and el mirage..my goal is to have the FASTEST (not quickest) street legal pontiac powered vehicle....keep on runnin fast guys!...later....ED

[uneasyrider]

Originally Posted by roadrage david

Super cool uneasyrider!!!!!!!!! any special things done to your car!!!!!!

Thank you and yes I think so. Here are the specs:

E-heads (out of the box)

462cid (400 block 0.060 over)

Eagle crank and H-beam rods

10.2:1 compression

Pistons = SRP

RPM manifold

Crower part # 60243 Grind # 284HDP: (2,500-6,000)

@ 0.050 228/235

112deg lobe sep.

0.479/0.494 (w/1.5:1)

1.5:1 rockers

stock 800cfm Q-jet

Hooker Super Comp. headers (forget the size but needless to say they are large)

Kumho ECSTA MX 255/45 17's front and 285/40 17's rear "Y" speed rated 186 mph

Stock Super T-10 4-spd

Comp Engineering Subframe connectors

Comp Engineering Traction bars (to be installed soon)

10 bolt GM, 2.73 rear (soon to have a new Eaton posi)

It's still in progress but it's getting closer every day. I'll need to put a roll bar, harnesses, and four wheel disc's on it before I really push it.

[uneasyrider]

Originally Posted by transam_kahuna

Nice cars guys! ...so now I'm going to build an 1970 Trans am for the Silver state and bonneville and el mirage..my goal is to have the FASTEST (not quickest) street legal pontiac powered vehicle....keep on runnin fast guys!...later....ED

Thanks transam kahuna,

Big Blue is COOL! I roughed out a calculation on the hp needed for me to run my car to 170mph and I'm getting around 490hp. What do you think Big Blue is putting out if you don't mind me asking? I'm trying to get an idea if I have the hp to actually go that fast or not. I have the gears but that isn't enough I know. Best wishes on your Silver State car! Keep us informed because deviant minds want to know.

[transam_kahuna]

Nice set-up uneasy rider..I've got a couple of 74's wish they looked as good as yours...hmm..450 or so is what I recall our estimates for the engine..you would not believe how many cars have run the silver state that in theory or on paper were capable of 185+ mph but didnt have the durability to stay together for any length of time..several years ago a guy put bunchs of money into an porsche 935 replica..a local porsche guy did the engine and told the guy "you need more than dyno time before running any distance" well this guy took the car with apx 1 hr running time to the silver state..first set of speed traps he was clocked at 195-201 mph..then apx 8 miles into the race his engine went BLOEEY! 25k in engine work gone!...so I learned you have to make the engine live..extra oiling,cooling then back-up for that..we have the advantage of lots of torque at relatively low rpm's..on tires looks like you have that covered..but even with "Z" rated tires people have had problems..the actress Marsha mason and her driver had a built late 80's mustang have its z rated tires start to delaminate at 175+..too much weight for the tires they were running....here are some theoretical gear ratios/rpm's= mph calcs I did for big blue w/255-50-ZR16's..of course there are other factors;aerodynamics,tire diameter etc.this is for 2.73 gears 4500 rpm=132.599 mph 5000 rpm=147.333 5500 rpm=162.066 6000 rpm=176.799 6500 rpm=191.533... figuring the slippery 3rd gen ta's with ram air and 300 or so horses could see 160 mph you can see the potential for our second gen cars...I remember one guy telling me that 195-200 mph was not too difficult;but to get to the 250 mph mark it took almost 1/3 more hp! but one only has to look at big red (the really fast brick) to see that it only takes cubic inches and $$$ (mostly $$$)..please keep us informed on your progress uneasy and roadrage!...later...ED

[uneasyrider]

Thanks again transam kahuna! That's good info!


I don't really ever plan on doing anything with the car other than surprising a 'Vette or Porsche now and then when I get the chance. It still needs a few things done to it before I feel like it's even ready for that. I have to get Baer or equal FWD's for it. If I ever go do what you are doing I will build it like you are specifically for the purpose and with all the durability goodies like you are talking about. I know you're right, it takes serious effort to run that kind of speed over that kind of distance. All I intend to do with my car is give them a run for their money just to make them think about what's keeping up with them or blowing their doors off. I'll have about $15k into my car and I know 90% of the cars I can run with will have a BUNCH more into theirs. There is now substitute for cubic inches! Maybe someday I'll do what your doing though. Please keep us on top of what you are doing. Sounds like fun and I would sure like to see you do it!

[roadrage david]

ok guys here is my combo . 400 stroker tot 461 eagle kit / edel heads with 2,19/177 valves torkerII manifold and all the other goodies 550+ hp /575 lbs of torque max rpm 6000 . central verginia mashiene sirves build aka mr pbody . car is a 68 bird with detroid speed engeneering subframe conectors and there mini tub kit rim tire combo is v45 rims 17x11x7 with 315 x 35 yokohama tires in the back 17x8 with 255x40 pirelli combo in frond . performance suspention componends stage iv system upgraded with dse 2 inch drop leafs, with comp engeneering slide alink tration bars . speed tech tubular uper and lower a arms with sstb force ten 4 piston brake system with 13 inch rotors in the frond single piston with 11.25 in the back . moser 12 bold with 3.42 ratio(might change that to 3.08) with 33 spline axels . tr2004r level 3 bowtie overdrive trans . with remote perma cool dual oil radiatot with elect fan to cool it plus cooling the engine oil . rodney red radiator with another trans cooler and big electric fan . pre oiling system dual remote oil filters . npd repro ram air system, but thingking of changeing it to ram air box . rodney red 15% underdrive alu pollys . internal comp engeneering 8 point roll bar/cage . hurst quarter stik pistol grip shifter, with a 150 hp nos top shot system . carbon fiber 6 guage dash pod . custom made corbeua seats . 69 camaro frond and rear spoiler koni adj schoks . indian adventure ceramic coated 2 inch primaries headers with performace years ceramic 3 inch x pipe with ceramic coated goeligh exelerator mufflers . from there over the axel custom build stainless steel with spliters out of the back plymouth baracuda stile . there is more but thats the main build up ... i hope my spelling thusend screw this up lolol ps big kahuna did a speed calculation not that long ago i belive im not sure ......pps i hope there are more guys into this type of speeding lolol

[uneasyrider]

Sounds like a bad asp comb david! I would think it should get up to 150-160mph.

According to the formulas below it should do about 148mph with the 3.42's and about 153mph with the 3.08's @ 6,000rpm. I'm sure it will have the hp to pull it there too. According to the formula below and using an estimated Cd of 0.4 and an estimated frontal area of 24sq.ft. for your car 550hp should get you to 178mph with the right gears.

Here is a calculation you can use.

mph = (rpm x tire dia.)/(gear ratio x 336)

Note: Tire diameter in inches.

Below is a ROUGH calculation you can use to find out the hp it will take to drive your car through the air at a given speed.

hp = mph^3 x frontal area/262500 and add about 30hp for rolling resistance.

Note: mph is to the third power.

Note: Figure the frontal area as the width of the car times the hight of the car in feet.

Note: The constant (262500) factors in the Cd (coefficient of drag) using a Cd of 0.4 as a generic estimate of a typical modern passenger car Cd. If your Cd is known multiply the constant by 0.4 and divide it by the known Cd to get a closer number for the constant.

This one is for 1/4 mile ET

ET = [(weight/hp)^(1/3)] x 5.825 (This formula is good. It gets close.)

Note: It's the quantity of weight devided by hp to the cube root and that quantity is multiplied by 5.825.

or it can be written as

hp = weight/(ET/5.825)^3

This one give you mph in the quarter mile

mph = [(hp/weight)^3] x 234 (This formula is also good.)

Here is an old drag racer's rule of thumb, the best shift point is the peak hp rpm plus 10%. Example: If your car makes peak hp at 5000rpm shift at 5500rpm. That is realy just a good starting point but NOT that EVERY set up works there.

[roadrage david]

awesome nrs thanks uneasyrider nice formulas , but how ore where do you trow in the 0.67 ratio of the 4th gear !!! we did 131.25 miles with a 522 hp engine th400 3.42 ratio at 5400 rpm . some of the simboles i dont understand like weight/hp ^(1/3) im dutch we have diferend systems to calculate . please educate me on this one! tanks again

[uneasyrider]

Originally Posted by roadrage david

awesome nrs thanks uneasyrider nice formulas , but how ore where do you trow in the 0.67 ratio of the 4th gear !!! we did 131.25 miles with a 522 hp engine th400 3.42 ratio at 5400 rpm . some of the simboles i dont understand like weight/hp ^(1/3) im dutch we have diferend systems to calculate . please educate me on this one! tanks again

No problem, I know exactly what you are talking about on the different math symbols. They say math is the "universal" language but that's only if you both speek the same one.

For the formula

mph = (rpm x tire dia.)/(gear ratio x 336)

the gear ratio is the final drive ratio so if you have an overdrive transmission you will have to multiply the gear ratio by the overdrive ratio or for your .67 it would look like this,

mph = (rpm x tire dia.)/(0.67 x gear ratio x 336).

I know you understand some of these but I'll give you all of them so I don't miss anything.

^ equals to the power of, for example 2^2 = 4 or 3^2 = 9 or 2^(1/3) = 1.25992105

/ equals divide by or 4/2 = 2 or 6/2 = 3 or 100/4 = 25

x equals multiply by or 4x2 = 8 or 2x50 = 100 or 12x12 = 144

So for example the formula for elapsed time (ET) for your Firebird would look like this:

ET = [(weight/hp)^(1/3)] x 5.825

weight = 3,600 pounds (Just for example)

hp = 522 horsepower

the order of calculation is to start inside the parentheses ( ) and work out to the brackets [ ].

Thus,

ET = [(3,600/522)^(1/3)] x 5.825

ET = [(6.896551724)^(0.3333333333)] x 5.825

ET = [1.903461071] x 5.825

ET = 11.08766074 or rounded to 11.09 seconds in the quarter mile.

It's just a good estimate NOT to be taken as the Gospel. That is all the above formulas are. They will give you a good idea of what the car will do or what it will take to get it to do what you want but they are NOT exact by any means. For example, the ET formula assumes you have the right gear ratio, tires, fuel mixture, etc. for the track conditions and your engines performance curve.


Hope this helps.

[roadrage david]

uneasyrider . wat kan i say you know your nrs!!!!!! im afraight this is still way to complicated for me to understand lololol . but im sayving it and im going to ask help from sombody who can ecsplain it to me in the dutch way tanks for taking the time to wright it douwn ......

[uneasyrider]

VERY NICE RIDE DAVID!

Print this page out and take it to someone that does a lot of math and they should be able to translate. It is tough to go from one math system to another I know! GOOD LUCK and if you need any more explanation please let me know.

Have fun,

[roadrage david]

thanks you uneasyrider . yes its diferend that what im used to . i wil print it out and have a go with it!!! .