[GTO JOHN]

During July 2004 I was selling some parts on eBay when a fellow ebayer asked a question about some 66 Tempest parts that I had listed. I replied that I would get back to him after the weekend, since I was busy getting my 69 GTO ready for the Car Craft Summernationals at the Minnesota State Fairgrounds. He emailed back that we would wait for my reply. He also mentioned that he had a bunch of GTOs himself and that some might be for sale. I replied the next day and asked out of curiosity what he had in the way of GTOs. His reply came several days later and I was floored by what I was reading! He stated that he had about 35 GTOs in his collection which included 5 Judges! That's right five Judges! I had always wanted to own a 69 Judge so I was immediately interested and asked him about the Judges. It turns out he had four 69 Judges and one 70 Judge! These were all project cars that needed complete restoration. He had three Carousel Red 69 Judges. All were Ram Air III 4 speed cars with Parchment interiors. The fourth 69 Judge was Palladium Silver with Blue interior and was a Ram Air III automatic. The 70 Judge was a Ram Air III 4 speed that kind of flew under my radar at the time since I was focused sqaurely on the 69 Judges just hoping to be able to buy one of them. I began discussing my new find with a few of my close friends in the Land O’ Lakes GTO club while being careful not to disclose the whereabouts of this treasure trove of Pontiac muscle! At this time only a handful of people knew about the cars.

Several months of emailing back and forth brought more information each time but included times of up to 8 weeks without any response. Things were moving very slowly and with the long periods of no contact, and I was wondering if he had sold the cars to someone else. A good friend advised me to remain patient and not to bother him too much since he seemed like the kind of guy who took awile to warm up to someone. I certainly wanted to play the game his way since he had the cars I wanted to pursue. I remained low key and had the Judges on the back burner all through the autumn of 2004. After several more months of intermittent emails I finally received pictures with descriptions and pricing on the cars via email in early December 2004. Included with that email was the owners phone number! I called and spoke with a very pleasant Texan on the other end for over an hour. We talked about the cars, our families, and our interests among other things. Needless to say I was impressed and must have made a good impression myself as the emails started to roll in during December and January. We talked on the phone about once every two weeks just to stay in touch as I was gathering my thoughts and financing. In late February 2005 he called and said he was sending 6 rolls of 35mm film that he had taken of the cars that day via Priority Mail. Also included in the package were copies of the Pontiac Historical Services documentation and copies of the Texas titles in his name. This proved that the cars were real and he had clear titles to each one. At this point I am really getting excited about the possibilites. I took the film straight to the nearest 1 hour photo shop and nervously waited for their processing. What an exciting evening I had going through the nearly 120 color photos of these Judges!

I brought the photos and PHS sheets to the March 2005 Land O’Lakes GTO club meeting and discussed them with several knowledgable Judge people. Two of my good friends who had been in the loop from the beginning really helped me out once the pictures came in. Kevin had also been looking for a 69 Judge himself and suggested that we could buy three cars and keep one each and sell the third for a profit to fund the purchase and delivery of the others. This sounded like a great idea so I began focusing on more than one Judge. Paul, who knows more about Judges and GTOs than I may ever learn, pointed out several key items in the pictures. On one Carousel Red 69 the rear tailpanel was blacked out which he mentioned was a rare find. He suggested that the car could be something special since it had that extra treatment. He was also able to identify other key components and options in the photos and suggested these cars would be good restoration candidates if they were rust free cars as the seller claimed they were. Both Kevin and Paul suggested that I go down and inspect the cars in person since this was quickly morphing into the find of a lifetime!

I flew down to Dallas, Texas on April 1, 2005 and drove to meet with the seller of the Judges. We met at a body shop that he owned and I got the grand tour of the place which included at least 45 project cars and two very ferocious guard dogs. He had about 25 first generation Camaros scattered around the shop and grounds in various stages of restoration or disassembly. Some of the Camaros were rare Z-28s, some were big block cars, others were RS and SS cars. I had never seen so many 67-69 Camaros in one place before. There were three employees working on several cars in the shop which I learned were all owned by the man I was dealing with. In addition to all the Camaros there were several Chevrolet Chevelles and numerous Pontiacs including a restored Pepper Green 70 GTO 4spd, 70 GTO convertible, 67 LeMans convertible, 72 LeMans that had no rust whatsoever, 70 Tempest convertible, and several other 68-70 Pontiacs. Inside the shop was one of the 69 Judges that I had been the center of our discussions for the last 9 months. Finally I laid eyes on the first Judge and she was in way better shape than the pictures indicated. Rust free trunk floor, virtually rust free original floors and rockers, decent front fenders and valance. This Judge was a Carousel Red 4spd with posi, rally gauges, in dash tach, console, 8 track, tinted glass, power steering and disc brakes. This Judge even had the original glove box emblem still attached. Lots of dust and spider webs inside the car but she was in great shape from a restoration standpoint. Most of the project cars up in Minnesota are rusty somewhere but this car was shockingly clean. Only the lower rear quarters would need any rust repair. Looking under the hood there was an engine installed however the seller had stated in the emails that it did not include an engine. Checking the code I found it was a WA code which turns out is a 70 455HO. Now this wiley Texan decided to test me. The engine was painted bright red and he stated casually that he wasn’t sure if it was even a Pontiac engine. “I think it looks like a Chevrolet engine, what do you think?” he stated in a calm Texas drawl. Immediately a red flag went up in my mind. Why would this knowledable car guy who owns at least 35 GTOs and 30 Chevrolets mistake this for a Chevrolet engine? I realized right then he could be testing me to see what I might do when given the chance to get away with something. I replied that it was certainly a Pontiac engine but it was not the correct code for the Judge. Luckily at that time I did not know what a WA code block really was so I honestly suggested it might be Gran Prix engine. He nodded his head with approval and we proceeded with the tour while I took about 60 pictures of the Judge and other cars he had at the body shop. A year later I asked him about that comment and he admitted it was a test he used to determine the true intentions of a stranger that was coming to view his cars. He told me if I had answered anything other than what I had said he would have sent me straight back to the airport and our meeting was over! He needed to be certain of my character before taking me to see the rest of his 170 car collection at his ranch.

After the body shop visit he took me to lunch as we continued to discuss the cars and the car hobby in general. I got to know him better and found out how can came to own so many old cars. He was in banking originally then expended his investments to real estate all the while being interested in cars. He is particularly fond of Chevrolets, Camaros, Pontiacs, GTOs, and convertibles. During the 1980s and 90s he bought as many of these cars he could find and stashed them away on his ranch property. The better cars he kept inside his barn or at the body shop while the extensive collection spilled outside to his field as it grew in size. I followed him in my rental car as we drove out of Dallas to his ranch after lunch. I had a chance to call Kevin on my cell and fill him in on the condition of the first Judge. After describing the rust free nature of the car and coupled with the fact it still had the Judge glovebox emblem, rally gauges, tach, 8 track mount bracket and heater vent, and most of the trim and glass we concluded that this one would be a worthy candidate for purchase since it was fairly well optioned and had little rust.

We pulled off the interstate and made several turns on some obscure roads on the way to his ranch property. Way at the end of a dead end road we stopped at his 61 acre ranch where I found no less than 60 project cars sitting outside in the field around the back of the barn. Inside his pole barn sat about 15 very nice driver quality muscle cars ranging from a 70 W-30 442, 67 Camaro 427 4spd, 69 Chevelle SS396, 70 Judge convertible clone, 69 GTO convertible, 66 Chevelle SS396 convertible, plus other Chevelles and GTOs. What an amazing collection of cars, and parts! The parts! Pallet racking stuffed full of every kind of Chevrolet or Pontiac part you could imagine. This was by far the most impressive collection I had ever seen in my life!

Outside in the field we found the other four Judges sitting waiting for their next owner to come along. The first 69 Judge was tucked under the carport and was completely surrounded and almost invisible under a pile of parts and sheetmetal. Once we uncovered the car I found a Carousel Red 4 spd car with power steering, disc brakes, and nothing else. A stripped out rolling shell, there was nothing left except the tags. She was rust free however and the dry Texas floors were an awesome sight to me. PHS showed this was a low option car with the Judge, 4 spd, and radio as the only options. The brakes and steering were added along the way. A great builder notheless.

The final 69 Carousel Red Judge was a 4 spd, posi, factory A/C, hood tach, rally gauges, clock, console, steering, disc brakes, tinted glass. Basically a pattern car that had been hit hard in the left rear. She was slowly being stripped for parts when the current owner rescued her from the Houston area in the early 90’s. Basically a rolling shell that needed everything this one was sold as is without a front clip or any other parts. Gauges, clock, steering and disc brakes were there but not much else. Looked rust free other than the accident damage. Great optioned Judge with rear tailpanel blackout and the price was right. I had already been targeting this one from the photos so this one was a done deal.

Next up was the Palladium Silver 69 Judge. She came with a Ram Air III, automatic, blue vinyl top, blue interior, factory A/C, power steering and brakes per the PHS documents. The Judge had all the original sheetmetal and factory rear spoiler along with full interior and all trim pieces. The engine and trans are the only items missing. Floors looked very solid as we removed the rear seats to check them out. The trunk floor looked weak from sitting outside with parts and dirt inside it. This Judge was the most complete of all the Judges he had for sale and was a very interesting car with a unique color combination.

After a long day of checking out his entire collection I returned to my hotel room to sort through all the information, photos, and PHS sheets. I called my wife and then Kevin to discuss the cars and decided that I would commit to purchasing two cars immediately and then trying to purchase another pair later in the summer. I did not know exactly how everything would unfold but I was really excited to be purchasing my first Judge.

The following morning I drove back out to the ranch and met the owner to review the rest of his collection. After taking over 200 photos myself and copious notes all morning long, his wife called his cell and said she had picked up lunch for us. He said “Come on let’s show you the rest of my stuff” I was in awe as we drove several miles to another property where a huge industrial sized building stood. Inside were more pallet racks and several other cars including a very nice 66 Chevelle SS396 convertible and numerous 67-69 Camaros. Most of the Camaros were RS, SS, or Z-28 models. The building was probably 120x80 and packed to the gills with parts and cars. We ate lunch at his home and I got to meet his wife who stated that she was surprised that he would let someone come in here and look at all his stuff. I was just as surprised myself but was having the time of my life in the process. That afternoon we finished off the tour of his collection back at the ranch and I was able to get all the information I needed on the Judges and some additional notes on other cars that may be purchased in the future. We capped off the day when I treated them to a steak dinner and some more great conversation. I returned home the following morning and started to decide what my next move would be.

After a few days of consideration, I opted to buy the wrecked Judge in the field, and the Judge in the body shop. Both were Carousel Red 4 spd cars with Parchment interiors and both were well optioned on the PHS sheets. I figured if I had to sell one of them I would not lose money. I tenatively agreed to purchase the Silver 69 Judge and the third Carousel Red Judge at the same time. Kevin and I needed some time to get our finances in place but thought this could all be done by the end of the summer.

We got them all home by the end of August 2005 with the help of the seller who turned out to be a very knowledgable person and a great guy to deal with. He was able to deliver them to my driveway with his truck and trailer which worked out great for me. When the first pair arrived, my son Zachary who was three at the time was immediately enamored with the wrecked Judge and has claimed that one as his own since it rolled off the trailer. I have no argument with that as he is going to be a fixture in the garage for years to come. By the time the second pair of Judges was set to arrive, Kevin had found and purchased a very complete 69 Judge project locally so he stepped aside and allowed me to get a third Judge for myself. It took 13 months to close the deal on these cars but it was well worth the wait for the deal of a lifetime.

Fast forward another year to November 2006 and I purchased the 70 Judge from the same person. This one is a Granada Gold 4 spd car with low options. An unusual color combo, it has a Sierra Yellow painted top with Sandalwood interior. I am unsure if this will get restored to factory colors or not. This Judge was pulled out of a junkyard in the mid 80s and has sat for many years outside. Solid doors and quarters, but the trunk pan is shot and floors weak. A bit worse than the four 69’s but still a worthy restoration candidate.

The final chapter has yet to be written in this story however. You see, there is still one Judge left down there with my friend in Texas. This one is tucked away in a secret garage and she blows all the others away.

[68addict]

John that was a Great story!!!!! Finding those cars and getting them to your home is cool, and it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. I don't think I will ever be able to own a judge. I am satisfied having finally been able to ride in a Ram air IV judge recently.

[Greg Reid]

That IS an amazing story. I never would have seen it if it hadn't been for the "Paper said 'Old Car for Sale' thread"
That Palladium over Blue '69 sounds like a killer car.

[harrington]

Very cool story. I can only hope and pray that one day I will find a stash of cars like this.

[Old Blue 66]

This one is tucked away in a secret garage and she blows all the others away

Amazing story. Care to comment on this??

[poison heart]

Wow What a great story!!! I'd love to take that tour.

A few months ago I drove out to california to meet a guy with over 70 Buicks and somewhere between 50 and 60 of them were 1960 Buicks. That was a tour of a lifetime but sounds like you got me beat by a mile. Post more pictures if you can.

[poison heart]

[Old Blue 66]

Whats the guy doing with all those Buicks?? Whats the point if your just gonna let them sit there and fade away.

[poison heart]

You've got a point but he started collecting these way back when they weren't worth anything. I would bet that 85% of these would have been crushed and turned into Kias by now if he didn't save them. But they're not doing any good by sitting out in the elements but they're his and that's what he does with them. He has about 25 nice and rare ones at his house. I think there's only 1 that's in a garage though

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by poison heart

You've got a point but he started collecting these way back when they weren't worth anything. I would bet that 85% of these would have been crushed and turned into Kias by now if he didn't save them. But they're not doing any good by sitting out in the elements but they're his and that's what he does with them. He has about 25 nice and rare ones at his house. I think there's only 1 that's in a garage though

My Grandfather had a '59 LeSabre back in the '60s when I was a kid. Brings back memories. In fact, I see one just like it on the right hand side of one of those pics above.
By the way, have you ever read the original book "The French Connection"? The car used to smuggle all that heroin into the country was a '59 or '60 Buick Invicta. Apparently, it had some removable body panels that made it perfect for this use

[poison heart]

Got any pics of your Grandfathers? The '59s are much cooler than the '60s.

I'll have to look into that. I have never heard of it.

[Old Blue 66]

Im sure there are a lot of those guys out there. Ones that have many acres of land and may have bought a few over the years until it turned into a big collection. This one in particular looks like its well kept. Grass is mowed and there arent tons of parts laying around. This tells me he's proud of what hes got.

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by poison heart

Got any pics of your Grandfathers? The '59s are much cooler than the '60s.

I'll have to look into that. I have never heard of it.

I don't have any myself although I'm sure someone in my family has one or two with the car visible. If I recall correctly, his was a '60 and not a '59 as I stated before. It was red with red interior.
"The French Connection" is a great book and well worth reading. Probably out of print by now though...It was written in the early '60s.
The movie was much modified from the book which is actually a non-fiction crime story, not a novel as you might expect from viewing the movie. The car does play a significant role in the telling of the story.

[poison heart]

I'll definately look into that!

[Greg Reid]

I just Googled photos of the '59 and '60 LeSabres and my Grandfather's car was definitely, without a doubt the '59 model. You're right, it's better looking than the '60.
Of course, we called it the Batmobile back then.

[poison heart]

haha they are pretty wicked looking. The headlights and the body lines are just so much better on the '59s.

My dad's friend used to call mine the Battle Star Galactica. I always called it the beast. A friend of mine came up with The Blue Goblin. I thought that was pretty fitting.

[HO LEMANS]

Sorry to interrupt the Buick thing but I just hafta know GTOJOHN did you ever finish the hunt ??? did you get the best one of the herd home yet ??? don't leave us in suspense !!!



And BTW it's sad to see all those Buicks sitting out in the weather like that they're way too cool to die that way

[poison heart]

The Buicks would be long gone by now if he didn't buy them. They'd be Kias by now. It is sad though.

I think John said the cars were delivered to his door by the seller.

[GTO JOHN]

We did get 5 Judges delivered by the seller. There is one other car down there I'd like to get. I'm staying in contact with him and hopefully someday I will have the chance at that one.

Sorry to keep everyone in suspense but you know how it is when your working a deal.

[poison heart]

I'd like to see some pictures of the guys collection if you can post them.