[TDSjr]

A friend has received his "package" from PHS and looking to fill in some blanks. Car has "Special Code 02" for paint!! NO COLOR LISTED!!! It was originally listed as a '65 389 Tri-power 4 speed w/ 3.55 rear gears. Has anyone ever heard of special paint codes for '65? Ever hear of a car delivered directly delivered to the owner? No dealership was listed on PHS paperwork...

[TDSjr]

A friend has received his "package" from PHS and looking to fill in some blanks. Car has "Special Code 02" for paint!! NO COLOR LISTED!!! It was originally listed as a '65 389 Tri-power 4 speed w/ 3.55 rear gears. Has anyone ever heard of special paint codes for '65? Ever hear of a car delivered directly delivered to the owner? No dealership was listed on PHS paperwork...

[bigpop]

Thomas,I can't locate my 65 paint code chart but I do know that,other than the standard colors,there were about 3 or 4 (as I recall) colors added in 65.The most famous being Tiger Gold.I have seen the color info left blank or have SPEC ,meaning special,of course.It recall it depended on the factory as to how they designated the special color.bigpop

" goodnight Mrs. Calabash,where ever you are"

[TDSjr]

Big Pop
Thank you!!!! I'm trying to get some info for my buddy on this car in the hopes he may let his 70 GTO Convertible go!! ANY HELP IS APPRECIATED!!!!

[Tom Wood 64]

I looked up a old article i read about a rare paint on a 65. The guy that owned the car lived in Pa. Your question comes from Pa. On his paint code it simply listed 2-. If that is how the paint code reads, your friend has 1 of 2 cars painted Special Tiger Gold Paint. If it does not read that way i will do some more research. Good Luck.

[Jerry H.]

As I remember, there were 2 contest cars painted Tiger Gold, however many others were also painted Tiger Gold also. I personally owned two original paint Tiger Gold cars. The paint code on one was 2- and the && on the other. As previously stated, there were 4 or 5 special colors in 65. I don't know whether the special codes (2-,&&, or whatever) meant a specfic color, or just told that it was not a standard color and was to be pulled off and be painted one of the special colors. I can't remember where either of the cars I owned was built, but I do remember that one was a built very early, in September I think. I even came with a 64 wood wheel instead of a 65.

[TDSjr]

Hey Guys
Thanks for everyone's help!!! Yep, I'm in the Pa area....the is also in this area! The car isn't original from the sounds of it. I appreciate everyone's help...Big Pop once again thanks and Tom I'll look into the wheel situation!

[bigpop]

I found a copy of a memo from Ditzler,dated January,1965,Index No.15(?).It was for auto painters that carried Ditzler paint to be put in the shops Production Color Book-Ditzler Automotive Finishes.The memo states the wheel colors for 65-1)Starlight Black -2)Fontain Blue -3) Teal Turquoise -4)Capri Gold.It states pin-stripe colors,black,Cameo Ivory and Montego Red.At the bottom it reads 1965 Pontiac Color-Special Color.To make it brief,it states there will be approximately 2500 cars painted Tiger Gold(Tiger Poly 22728).No paint code number is assigned to this color.Be sure to add this color to your current stock list in DDL pints and quarts.FYI guys bigpop

" goodnight Mrs. Calabash,where ever you are"

[Bertone]

Bringing this thread back to life. When was Hurst gold (Tiger gold) first available to order on the 65 model run? Based on the memo from bigpop, I assume that no 65 year car built in 1964 would have the option of Hurst gold yet. Early 65s would not have Hurst Gold as an option where later 65s could?

Was the Hurst give away car the first car to receive this paint color? From what I read in the book "Million-Dollar Muscle Cars", a special paint (Hurst gold) was developed for the Hurst give away car.

[60sstuff]

Looks like a rough Tiger Gold GTO.

2-2 = Tiger Gold (body lower) with Black Cordova Top (body upper)

[John V.]

I have no idea when the Hurst giveaway '65 GTO was built. But the winner was announced according to the history at the '65 NHRA US Nats in Indianapolis. That event was over the Labor Day weekend, by then production of the '65 Model Year had ended. So the winner essentially was given last year's model after it had served its marketing purpose.

The contest was promoted for months in the mags, also according to the history.

It very well might have been the first to get the special gold paint, in the ads it was called Hurst Gold, but was same as Tiger Gold.

My speculation is that Hurst took a "run of the mill" GTO that was painted "Tiger Gold" like others before it, added their gold flourishes, and used it for promotion. Chances are it was not the first GTO painted that color.

Certainly many Tiger Gold GTOs were sold before the giveaway car was put into private hands.

I don't know if any documentation exists announcing the availability of Tiger Gold. It was common for Pontiac to announce the availability of "Spring Colors" to juice sales mid model year after the initial excitement of a new Model Year had worn thin and sales slowed. But nothing I have seen ever suggested Tiger Gold was a '65 Spring Color.

The lengthy GM strike just after retail sales of the '65 Model Year had begun in Sept '64 would contribute to the scarcity of any Tiger Gold builds even if the color was already being offered.

For sure, I don't know the build date of the earliest Tiger Gold GTOs.

But I have a PHS record for what I believe was a real Tiger Gold '65 GTO (COLOR Code 22A) with a date of 12/23/64. If true, that would prove they were offered prior to '65. Whether the Hurst GTO was built prior to that is still not known by me.

The color continued on as Coronado Gold, thru '68 IIRC. I don't think any other GM Div. offered it except that of course, you could request it as a Special Color option on any GM vehicle.

[Bertone]

This is something I found from member bigpop:

The bulletin is for the dealers PRODUCTION COLOR BOOK-Ditzler Automotive Finishes.Dated January 1965,it gives the 1965 wheel Colors and Pinstripe colors w/Ditzler Code numbers.The bottom half refers to the subject at hand.The heading reads 1965 PONTIAC COLOR-SPECIAL COLOR.It reads as follows:
there will be approximately 2500 cars painted Tiger Poly 22728.No paint code number is assigned to this color.
Be sure to add this color to your CURRENT STOCK LIST in DDL Pints and Quarts.

Also from reading other threads on this forum, PHS cannot verify the actual born on color from a special color paint option. Seems like Kansas plant used the letter O (or the number zero) for special paint and other plants used the number 2 for special paint from Pontiac's color selection but the color is unknown. Based on bigpop's bulletin, Tiger gold was not assigned a paint code.

In addition from reading bigpop's bulletin, I'm reading it as in Jan 1965 Pontiac is planning to release the new color of Tiger Gold indicating approximately how many cars they think they might be painting with this new Tiger Gold. Which indicates Tiger Gold was not an early model year color.

[John V.]

You may be reading "too much" into the Ditzler verbiage.

PMD may have been "planning" 2500 Tiger Gold builds but they could very possibly have already begun to churn them out.

I believe you are jumping to a conclusion to claim this bulletin suggests that Pontiac was "planning to release" a color that was not yet in production as of the date of the bulletin.

Like I said, I have the Billing History Card for a KC built Tiger Gold GTO with a 12/23/64 date on it.

The way I read it, Ditzler's bulletin was advising somebody to stock the color for potential refinishing work. Unclear to me if this was a bulletin sent to PMD dealers or Ditzler Paint distributor's, but whoever it was directed at, stocking for refinishing work is what it seems to be concerned with.

You are correct in that you cannot know from a KC Data Plate if the car is/was Tiger Gold because it seems by the evidence that KC coded any Special Paint Color with a "0" on the Data Plate in '65.

And as an aside, KC coded the Black vinyl top with a "6" on the Data Plate, another source of confusion (the Pontiac Plant coded Black as a "2" and Beige as a "6").

But the '65 BHC coding for Color has been consistent for the Tiger Gold with Black vinyl top builds, using "22A" regardless of where the car was assembled.

I've studied a KC built '65 GTO convert that was coded "0-1" on the Data Plate. This car was originally painted a special reddish orange color believed to have been a '64 Corvette color "Riverside Red" with the "1" indicating the White convertible top (KC coded convertible top color same as at Pontiac). Unfortunately, I do not know what was coded on the PHS. I suspect it was NOT "22A" but don't have the proof. The coding on the BHC would have related to the pricing. A Special non-Pontiac Paint color was very possibly priced differently from Tiger Gold as a Special Pontiac Paint color so I believe would have been coded differently on the BHC for that reason.

The original color of the 12/23/64 GTO was verified by finding the original gold in hidden areas. The car had otherwise been resprayed to Black in its unknown prior history.

Same for the reddish orange which was found in hidden areas although in that case, the match to Riverside Red was a "best guess". Only thing certain, it was not a standard '65 Pontiac color and it was not Tiger Gold.

I am aware of another KC '65 GTO hardtop with a BHC that only shows a "1 A", no second position color code. The Data Plate shows "0-0".

I do not know what the original color might have been. My guess is that it was a Special non-Pontiac Paint color and no vinyl top. And the BHC coding of "1 A" is how I would expect such a color choice to have been coded.

A '65 BHC with "22A" on it could mean some other color besides Tiger Gold. But I suspect only if Pontiac offered another Special Pontiac Paint color. Since I don't think they did, I'm not sure that "22A" on the BHC could mean anything but Tiger Gold.

Still doesn't establish how early Tiger Gold was offered so I will only stand by the evidence I have, making the 12/23/64 example the earliest known to me. BTW, the Time Built code on the Data Plate for that car is 12C.

Data Plate "PAINT" coding for Tiger Gold builds was not consistent so that adds to the confusion.

But unless somebody has evidence to the contrary, the "22A" BHC coding has consistently proven to mean a "Tiger Gold" with Black vinyl top build in my limited experience.

Would welcome evidence to the contrary.

[Bertone]

Great info John V. Thank you.

Just wanted to add a picture that is from the Tiger Gold 65 from post #10 showing the PHS results from the 22A Billing history card.

[John V.]

The Data Plate for the car in post #10 shows a Pontiac built '65 GTO.

The Pontiac Plant was supplied by Dupont either usually or always. In '64 this was apparently true with the exception of Cameo White and Yorktown Blue. Other GM Plants were supplied according to whatever scheme GM must have thought reasonable to spread the business around.

The Pontiac Plant often if not always coded the Special Paint by Dupont code on the Data Plate. In my limited experience, I believe the Pontiac Plant always procured Special Paint colors from Dupont.

The Dupont code for Tiger Gold Poly was 867-97904. I am a little shaky about the 867 prefix, but the 97904 suffix is a certainty.

Check the pic of that Data Plate and you will see the 97904 code. That is not a coincidence.

Paint was ordered by the Dupont Stock No., Tiger Gold was Dupont Lucite Acrylic Lacquer Stock No. 4946-L. You won't generally find the Code no. for it identified in reference materials, just the Stock No. Maybe somebody with ancient Dupont paint formula books can find the Code No. and perhaps explain what the purpose was.

I am no paint expert and cannot tell you the purpose of the Code No. vs. Stock No. I think the Code No. (prefix and suffix) may define a formula but need confirmation.

But I am certain that the 97904 coded on the Data Plate seen in post #10 identifies the Dupont Tiger Gold paint that the car was originally sprayed with.

There was also the "WA" code, Tiger Gold was WA 3770. I'm not sure who assigned this code or what its purpose was. I believe GM assigned it as I don't think it specific to any one paint vendor.

I am attaching an excerpt for a Kansas City, KS built '64 Bonne that was ordered with a Special Paint color, Nile Green, which was a '64 Cadillac color. The Dupont Lucite Acrylic Lacquer Stock No. was 4565-L. On the Manifest, the Dupont code 867-96838 is identified. I've had this pic many years and don't remember if this code was also found on the Data Plate. But posting it as an example of how these Special Paint colors were identified by Dupont Code No.

[60sstuff]

PPG Ditzler Paint Chart (1965).

[John V.]

Yes, I'm familiar with the Ditzler Paint Code 22728 for Tiger Gold/Coronado Gold.

But the Pontiac Plant, in my experience, never coded a Ditzler Paint Code on a Special Paint Color build Data Plate or Manifest.

Only the Dupont Codes were coded, what I think Dupont considered a "formula" Code such as the 97904 for '65 Tiger Gold as seen in Post #10.

The Ditzler Code would not be helpful in identifying the original Special Paint Color applied to a particular build.

[60sstuff]

Originally Posted by John V.

Yes, I'm familiar with the Ditzler Paint Code 22728 for Tiger Gold/Coronado Gold.

But the Pontiac Plant, in my experience, never coded a Ditzler Paint Code on a Special Paint Color build Data Plate or Manifest.

Only the Dupont Codes were coded, what I think Dupont considered a "formula" Code such as the 97904 for '65 Tiger Gold as seen in Post #10.

The Ditzler Code would not be helpful in identifying the original Special Paint Color applied to a particular build.

Yes, I get it John V. about the 97904 in post #10.

Just contributing the Ditzler information to what 'bigpop' talked about showing the special (Tiger Gold) color.

Regards, Chris.

[rare4k]

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[rare4k]

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