[JonW]

For those who missed my introductory post, I recently acquired a straight '63 LeMans. I like the unusual stuff, so I decided to build a 1963 GTO. My builder recently finished my last unusual project, a 1962 Lincoln with a Hemi. He's no stranger to fabrication (and is quite good at it) and is a GTO nut at heart, so this project is a natural for him.

Here's the eBay photo of the car:



The goal is to make a 1963 GTO as it would have looked sitting on the showroom floor. There will be concessions to modern amenities, but they will be very subtle. Authenticity is a high priority. Seasoned GTO gurus or gearheads might spot some of the mods, but my goal is to pass muster with most show-goers.

My guy called yesterday and has a 455 block he's sending out to be checked. If it's OK we'll start with it. We'll be using cast iron heads and factory SD exhaust manifolds. We'll be using fuel injection, but it will be hidden by an OEM 1964 GTO air cleaner. He'll grind the casting numbers off the block and heads so they look more generic. We're considering having the block, heads and intake powder coated for durability.

Obviously, the rope shaft and transaxle will go away, but that's later on down the road. One decision we have to make is what to do about a shifter. I'd love to use a Hurst Dual Gate, but 1963 was too early for that. The factory dash-mounted shifter obviously won't work. We're giving some thought to going with a column shift.

If there's interest, I'll keep posting as we go along. My guy isn't one for taking a lot of pictures, but I'll try to snap some once in a while. The downside is that his shop is an hour or so away. If anyone has any ideas, I'd be glad to hear them.

[tom s]

Unless you can find original tempest SD exhaust the big car exhaust wont work on your car.If your going to put a 455 in the car then you should just do the rear-front trans change now at one time.Once you do the change than the trans and shifter is not a big issue.There are many people on this forum that has done the changeover,I did my first one in 1964.FWIW,the project is not for weak of wallet unless you can do fab and welding work yourself.Remember a GTO was a frame car and your working with a unibody car.Tom

[JonW]

We're going to do the change during the build, I just meant it would be later on. What about Ram Air exhaust manifolds? I thought I saw that they were being reproduced.

[tom s]

I think there is a RA exhaust that can fit the body.Might post that question in the 61-63 tech forum.My 63 421 car has custom headers built on the car.I had a set of the factory 421 SD tempest headers but would not fit a big car bellhousing,only the rope shaft bell.I had them on my 63 wagon for awhile.Tom

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by JonW

One decision we have to make is what to do about a shifter. I'd love to use a Hurst Dual Gate, but 1963 was too early for that. The factory dash-mounted shifter obviously won't work. We're giving some thought to going with a column shift.

I thought the dual gate Hurst shifter was available in 1963 on full size Pontiacs, but I could be wrong. It was available in the aftermarket that year.

Another thought - the optional Tempest floor shifter for automatic transmissions was cool looking: http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/stati...t/image24.html

[Simple Man]

Originally Posted by Stuart

I thought the dual gate Hurst shifter was available in 1963 on full size Pontiacs, but I could be wrong. It was available in the aftermarket that year.

Another thought - the optional Tempest floor shifter for automatic transmissions was cool looking: http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/stati...t/image24.html

Looks like a great way to go, if one can be located.
Good luck with your project!

[Craig Hendrickson]

Originally Posted by tom s

I think there is a RA exhaust that can fit the body.Might post that question in the 61-63 tech forum.My 63 421 car has custom headers built on the car.I had a set of the factory 421 SD tempest headers but would not fit a big car bellhousing,only the rope shaft bell.I had them on my 63 wagon for awhile.Tom

The ram air exhaust manifolds from Ram Air Restorations do fit, but with a little work. I did one on a 1963 Tempest with 1970 RAIII engine.

[Poncho60]

How about a Hurst auto stick 1...not period correct, but gated & look like a 4 speed.

[JonW]

I'm trying to stay with period correct.

[tom s]

Period correct would be a 2 speed auto with a consol and shifter.Im sure you could get a 64 GTO consol to put in between the seats.The factory had a little plate that went in where the dash shifter is when a floor consol was used.The factory 63 consol and shifter would not work well when you build the trans tunnel.Tom

[U47]

Having read enough about DeLorean and his mindset it seems he would have a lot to do with what a 63 GTO would have been.
A fast Pontiac that goes around corners and stops well.
That would dictate independent four wheel independent suspension, and the best weight distribution possible which indicates a transaxle in the rear.
The best way to achieve that would come from the C5 Corvette parts bin.
This would make the car a great Grand Touring Car which is indicative of the words GTO.

[Tempest]

please keep us updated with pics and comments, this will be interesting to watch.

Thanks

[Poncho60]

The 63 dual gate was not factory installed, did not have the shift pattern of the turbo 350/400, plus good luck finding one if it could even be made to work. I doubt 99+% of viewers would even know what it was if they saw it these days.

[Doug]

The 64 GTO was an upgraded 64 Lemans “assembled” using some basic Pontiac parts that were already available except the scooped hood and some trim items, emblems, etc.

The stock 63 Lemans had pretty much what the stock 64 Lemans had including availability of options like air conditioning, bucket seats, heavy duty shocks, dual exhausts, automatic transmission floor shifting with consoles, dog dish-to-deluxe hubcaps, power steering, power brakes, etc, etc. Accordingly, a 63 GTO would have been quite similar to a 63 Lemans.

The largest engine in both a 63 Lemans and a 64 Lemans was a 326ci. The 64 GTO only went up one engine size to a big-car 389 (4bbl or tri-power), not all the way up to the big-car 421. Accordingly, a 63 GTO would have received a 389 (4bbl or tri-power). The 64 GTO didn’t have exhaust manifolds significantly different (if at all) from a 64 Lemans or from the big car 389 exhaust manifolds. The 63 Lemans had a dual exhaust option.

The 63 GTO hood more than likely would have “copied” the ‘62 bolt-on Ford scoop styling by having the familiar single bulge scoop used in the 65-67 GTO. However, it could have copied a dual scoop style similar to the 1963 X-400 Grand Prix concept car. (The concept car dual scoop may indeed have been the inspiration for the 64 GTO hood.)

The “front” portion of the 63 GTO drive train would basically be a V-8 with manual or auto tranny setup. The rear part could have been a setup utilizing 1962 Corvette conventional straight axle leaf spring setup.

It is unclear when mention is made of using “factory SD exhaust manifolds”. Since 1963 big car factory Super Duty exhaust manifolds are virtually unobtainable and 1963 Tempest Super Duty exhaust manifolds are practically impossible to get, I assume the OP meant “factory long branch manifolds” used on 65-67 H.O. big cars and some 67-69 Firebirds. These “long branch” are available from RAM AIR RESTORATIONS.

I have seen a street driven 63 with automatic transmission using a set of long branch manifolds. No doubt others have installed long branch in some 63’s. I have a set of long branch in a 63 project . The motor sits “level” in the car which gives clearance to the engine cross member. At a normal rearward down tilt of the motor, the long branch would require notching of the engine cross member for manifold clearance and oil pan clearance.

When mention is made of using “ram air exhaust manifolds” from Ram Air Restorations, I assume it refers to the style that was first used on 67 GTO Ram Air engines. In Craig’s #7 post above, he indicates he made a set of “ram air exhaust manifolds” work in a 63 with a little work. I would like to hear what he had to do to use the 67 GTO style if that was the case.

Since the goal is to make a 1963 GTO as it would have looked sitting on the showroom floor, there are not too many “modern amenities“ that would be needed (if at all) to convert a 63 Lemans to a 63 GTO. Virtually every technology needed to make it “period correct“ was already available in 63 (even fuel injection).

The 64 GTO appearance wow factor was the hood scoops that readily distinguished it from a Lemans. Of course the high performance (large engine-small car) was the real appeal. A 63 GTO would have needed something like a scooped hood as its wow appearance factor. Elimination of transaxle would have been a wow factor too. A 63 Lemans with an upgraded 326 engine (compression/exhaust/carburetion,etc) and a solid rear axle drivetrain would have been a pretty good GTO package. After all, the 63 introduction of the “large” 326 V-8 over the “small” 62 aluminum 215 V8 was already a big step towards the “large engine-small car concept“.

[U47]

The trans axle in the rear was the intriguing thing about the Tempest/LeMans otherwise the car was another Skylark/Special, F-85/Cutlass.
Had the transaxle been built stronger and the suspension designed with Grand Touring in mind plus a 389 instead of the 336 the car would have been something really special. A adaptation of that concept would have made a better GTO than the original 64 GTO and using C5 suspension parts make a build like that possible.

[JonW]

Doug, a lot of good stuff in your post. Thanks for the thoughts. My nomenclature may have been off on the exhaust manifolds. My guy will know what will fit. Interesting concept on the '62 Corvette rear. I may have to look into that.

[linden_gto]

i'm not well versed on the '63 models, but it would seem to me that a '63 GTO would have much of what the '64 has, as if it was available in '63. a 389 with tri-power seems to be the obvious engine choice - nothing bigger was available. i assume a standard front-mounted transmission might be necessary due to the power of the 389 and therefore the 4-speed transaxle would not be a sufficient option. if it could handle the power, i'd opt for the 4-speed transaxle. as some have suggested, the '64 console would look great, especially if it could incorporate the shifter in a proper position. if a larger tunnel is necessary, isn't that going to play havoc with the position of the front buckets - pushing them outward too far possibly?? for wheels, i'd think steelies with poverty caps would fit the bill. for the hood, i think i might just try to incorporate the '64 GTO scoops into the '63 hood. it seems to make more sense to me that items that were used on the '64 would simply have been designed/been available a year earlier if JD was really working on bringing a '63 GTO to market. all GTO badging should be in relative placement to the '64 also. all that would at least give you all the visuals on a '63 GTO.

[linden_gto]

i would remove all body trim, including on top of the fenders, and even remove the cove on the front fender, so a GTO emblem could be placed there instead. maybe rework the front grills so there is only 1 horizontal line instead of 2, so a GTO logo could be placed below - similar to the '64s.

[Craig Hendrickson]

The idea of a 63 GTO based on the 326 or 326HO V-8 is a good one.

I have some experience with the 63 Tempest. I've owned 2 and I am good friends with a guy who was the wrench for Jim Christianson's ex-Mickey Thompson's #749 A/FX. It had the trans axle which didn't last long even under street driving use. which eventually was replaced with a big Pontiac rear end and leaf springs out of a station wagon.

The first one I owned was built by Bruce Brayton as a sometimes street but mostly drag car. It was patterned after Mickey Thompson's 1962 #672 A/FX. It had the trans axle replaced with a big Pontiac solid axle, torque arms with coil springs and had the 1962 389SD engine. Bruce's 63 Tempest was a steel bodied one but raced with the 421SD 2x4 bathtub intake but not analuminum front end. I bought it from Bruce and then Pete McCarthy bought it from me.

The 2nd one I owned was originally a 326HO which someone had replaced the 326 with a 389. However the rope drive and trans axle were retained. I punched out the 389 to 400 and replaced the 63 326HO heads and intake/carb with #13 70 RAIII heads with aluminum intake, but with a Quadrajet and the aforementioned RAIII exhaust manifolds. That car was a lot of fun!

Good luck with your project.

[tom s]

Craig,that car started as a partner ship with Jay Gage.I stay in touch with Bruce.I was racing my 63 at the same time,they built theirs after I built mine.I have a pic around here somewhere it was a metallic orange.I sold mine to a friend of theirs in the Wilmington area without the SD engine.As I remember Jay moved to San Diego area.Need to give Bruce a call,will ask.Tom