[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Conrad,
You are very welcome.
Eric

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

I'm sure you can pick out Jim Wangers from his profile. I'll give you a hint. He's standing between the '69 T/A and the '65 Tiger Gold GTO.

1993 Caravan. My '68 GTO convert Bobcat, Jim Wangers' '69 T/A, Jerry Treleven's '65 Tiger Gold Give-A-Way car with gold Hurst wheels and gold Hurst shifter.

Jerry Treleven and his friend brought the '65 GTO all the way from Wisconsin for the GTO Northern Nationals held at PMD's World Head Quarters.

On Woodward we came across a '69 GTO Bobcat clone who lined up with Jim Wangers in his '69 T/A.

Coming back from a GTO gathering at the A&W. The three of us lined up and ran off the lights in down town Pontiac on Wide Track. We did it again on this beautiful stretch of Woodward Ave. Jim Wangers' felt enough was enough and pulled in behind the '65 GTO.

We were on the tail end of 100 plus GTO's cruising Woodward that evening.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Larry Cohen's '65 GTO Hurst Motor Trend 500 Give A Way car that was the stable mate to the Black Bird and '69 Wangers' Judge for a few years.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Shhh,
It has been 10 years so I feel Jim wouldn't mind us having used the Bandit to trailer a broken down Dualie with the Pontiac racers own trailer. They unloaded their '63 Grand Prix and drove it down the Ohio Turn Pike as I trailered the dualie.
I thought I was just going to have a nice quite and uneventful ride dwon to Norwalk. Just Caravaning with a group of Royal Pontiac club memebers.
It was fortunate that I was not trailering. The Bandit was full of Jim Wangers art work and books.
The rest of the weekend was uneventfull. Just kicked back in Jim Wangers' tent.

You can see the Black Bird hiding in the back ground of the shop.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by Navy Chief

Dr. Thanks for more of the inside story, Yes the 65 is a healthy beast to say the least, unforunately I never got to see it run in the 1/4, San Diego only has Barona Raceway which is an 1/8 mile, we did talk about the history of the car.
Before I left they were putting a lot of time into the Verdoro Green Firebird with some suspension work, and the engine was going to be upgraded.
Thanks for sending me the link to the RPCOA and the invitation to park at the dealer for the Woodward cruise, you did mention some of your members are from Ohio any of them from Toledo or nearby? I will try to attend one of your meetings time willing.
Maybe I can go with my 66.

Navy Chief,
Here are some photos of the '65 GTO before Ron Flurie sold it to Jim Wangers. The pictures are our Royal Pontiac display at the 1994 Detroit Autorama.

I also added photos of the Detroit based Judge when I displayed with the Royal Pontiac Club at the 1996 Detroit Autorama. I had "Akron" Arlen Vankye pose with the Judge. Notice the monitors next to the car. Real funny that Jim Wangers happen to come up on one and the Judge ad on the other. The Judge had not been modified yet. It had its original Ram Air III under the hood here.

Eric

[brut4s]

Dr. Schiffer, the engine in the Blackbird the same that was in it when it ran in the 9's? If so would you care to share the specs? Thank you.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

I couldn't tell you the spec's of any of the engines that have been in this car even if I wanted to. These engine builders reveal very little about the combinations. Every thing is pretty much gound and built to order. Nothing off the shelve.

I couldn't even tell you the flow of the Ram Air IV heads that have been on the car for years. All I'm told is they flow very well by each guy that has touched them. I can tell you who did some of the work. These guys like to keep their spec's a secret.

Duncan Micheal who builds Jim Wangers' Ponticarlo engines built the engines I've had in the Black Bird.

Brian Ballish built the early engines. He is easier to get a hold of at White Racing and Marine in Warren, MI. He still builds great engines.

Since you are in California you should get in touch with Robert Johnson at Jim Wangers office. Robert may be able to help you.

[brut4s]

Thank You Dr. Schiffer!

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Well, Jim Wanger's Ponticarlo with Robert Johnson at the wheel and a Duncan Michael built nitrous motor went 8.80's at 151MPH at Witchita, KS.

[rad400]

Nice.

[Navy Chief]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

Navy Chief,
Here are some photos of the '65 GTO before Ron Flurie sold it to Jim Wangers. The pictures are our Royal Pontiac display at the 1994 Detroit Autorama.

I also added photos of the Detroit based Judge when I displayed with the Royal Pontiac Club at the 1996 Detroit Autorama. I had "Akron" Arlen Vankye pose with the Judge. Notice the monitors next to the car. Real funny that Jim Wangers happen to come up on one and the Judge ad on the other. The Judge had not been modified yet. It had its original Ram Air III under the hood here.

Eric

Dr.
Great pics of a legendary racer and a legendary car, thanks for posting.

Sorry I did not get to meet you at the Dream Cruise, I had the 66 GTO ready to go, it had been running great all week and then as soon as I backed out of the driveway to head north the waterpump to a dump, at least it had the decency to do it in my house.
I did make it up there even tho it was not with a Pontiac, my 69 Ranchero GT had a full tank of gas so up we went. Maybe next year.

BTW I was just at www.moparts.com and they were talking about the HEMI myth and the Blackbird was mentioned but some trash was said about it, offcourse about the times it ran the Silver Bullet.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Navy Chief,
So why didn't you stop by? We welcome all cars at our parking spot. Look over the pictures at the clubs website. www.Royalpontiac.org. There was even a little drag racing by some of the memerber that I video taped for the site.

Just go to the menu along the top left and click on events. Then click on the 2011 Dream Cruise. look at the picture and find the two movie shorts.

Next year.
Eric

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

These are samples shots from Norwalk's photographer (proofs)

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

For what ever reason Ihave not been able to transfer the file with Jim Wangers and the Black Bird at the 2007 Dream Cruise.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Ahh, I figured it out...Yaaaa
Here are some of the events I took the the Black Bird to in 2007.
Ames Tri-Power at Norwalk, Jim Wangers' presentation at Motor City Steel's car show and down town Birmingham during the Dream Cruise.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

I thought I might throw this in. It is built by a friend of mine. Gordon Heidecker. His company is Heidie Performance Products, (HPP) This was his 2010 SEMA car. This year he is displaying a convertible version in a beautiful pearl white and blue with red interior.

I have several more photos. Gordon matched the interior weave to the 1969's.

I'll post pictures of it when her returns from SEMA in a few weeks.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Here are some old black and white proofs from the tests at Ubly Dragway. This is what the tests looked like behid the scenes of John Kosmala's '65 GTO Tri-power Bobcat vs '69 GTO Ram Air IV Royal Bobcat vs '69 Judge Ram Air III.

The outing appeared in several magazines with these cars squaring off one on one.

I thought I'd let you in on a secret. This Judge was orginally the Lime Light Green with white interior, Hide-a-way Head lights and a rear power anntenna, Ram Air IV press car that didn't run very well. Mostly because it didn't start life as a Ram Air IV. Car and Drive and others tested it early with a bad tune and a 3.55 Rear end.

Now I want you to go back and look at all of your Judge ads and tests. Every time you see a Judge with Hide-a-ways and a rear antenna, it is this car. The stripe went from a white spear to the production multi color. The car was used as the Ram Air V test car in Daytona, NOT THE BLUE and WITH '69 GTO Bobcat. That car was always a Ram Air IV. The Ram Air IV banner wasa moved for car to car for photo ops. You never saw the Ram Air V under the hood. The only photos of a Ram Air V installed was in Leader Automotives '69 Firebird
Royal Race car.

Look at the old photos from the tests and Ad's. You will note the Judge had two different rear spoilers used. The original one was taller and short in width. Brian Ballish said they were instructed to put this car together and had no idea which way it went on. They put it on backwards at first.

Cars Magazine called it Judge #001 and had no idea of what was under the hood. But said it felt very strong.

Car and Driver in a Comparison Road Test "Six Econo-Racers" in January 1969. They knew something was up when the Judge. They noted that the car ran very cool at 190 and would not live on anything less then Sunoco 260. This was suppose to be a Ram Air III. They found a vacuum line that controled the timing had been plugged. The car out ran the Hemi Road Runner that posted a 13.54 @ 105.14. C&D wouldn not post the Judges times. The were polite and only said this was a protoype and did not represent what the public would be buying.

The Judge was Jim Wangers' street sweeper capable of high 11 sceonds. If any one got by the Blue and white '69 Bobcat Ram Air IV. Jim would send John Politzer or Billy Schmitz after them with this one.

There is a few stories written by Ro MC Gonegal in 1969. A few years ago Ro wrote an editoral that I'll try and dig up called "We Been Had".....You bet ya he was.

And you thought everything you read in magazine were truthfull!

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Here is Ro Mc Gonegal's orginal story. I'll try and find his Editoral he wrote a few years ago abouth him being had.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Ro several years later finding out he'd been HAD!

Even Milt weighted in on this one!

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Here is the Real Ram Air V Test....It was the Leader Automotive Royal Firebird. Converted from Royal's 350 H.O. to a Ram Air V.