[MikeNoun]

Originally Posted by 1969T/A

Here's a link to the "Superteen Firebird Story".
Not once does he say anything about the "I Dream Of Jeannie Car" ?
By the way he contacted "John DeLorean and Jim Wangers" In This Story.
http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...ird/index.html

1969 T/A, I'm still confused as to why you keep associating the 1968 Superteen Firebird with the "I Dream Of Jeannie" car? The HPP article clearly states that George Barris sold the 1968 Superteen Firebird parts as an AFTERMARKET item. Those parts ended up on countless (maybe hundreds) of 1967-1969 Firebirds across the country. The HPP article was about the Superteen Firebird, so why would they mention the IDOJ car? Should they have mentioned a 1963 SD421 Catalina too? How about Paris Hilton? The Chicago Cubs?

...."he contacted John DeLorean for this story." Umm...DeLorean passed away over 3 years ago. Read the article again carefully. DeLorean was contacted in 1968, not 2008.

BTW, I don't mean to bust Mr. Wangers chops again, because I really like the guy, but he also dismissed the story about the factory lightweight 1965 GTO that was featured in HPP a few years ago (owned by Keith Van Seymore). Wangers claimed the car was bogus, because HE didn't know anything about it, and if Pontiac built lightweight GTO's, Wangers said HE sure as hell would have known about it. Turns out they made 6 factory lightweight 65 GTO's, and they've all been documented.

And yes, I still think Jim's confused about the IDOJ car.

[1969T/A]

Originally Posted by MikeNoun

1969 T/A, I'm still confused as to why you keep associating the 1968 Superteen Firebird with the "I Dream Of Jeannie" car?

"LOL" Do you read what you write?
It's "YOU" associating the "1968 Superteen Firebird" with the "I Dream Of Jeannie Car"
BY THE WAY GEORGE BARRIS ADMITS contacting John DeLorean and Jim Wangers and told them that I would like to use a Pontiac Firebird because the contest and TV show
Here's the article read it again.
http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...ird/index.html

YOU NEED TO PUT THE CRACK PIPE DOWN.


Anyone have pic's of the "I Dream Of Jeannie Car" ?

[John V.]

Spoke to Bill Daily (Maj. Healey on IDOJ) last night, he is a neighbor of my Uncle in Albuquerque. Asked him about the green Firebird convertible he drove on IDOJ. Turns out, he still owns it and it is PHS documented. It is a 400 convertible, auto trans. VIN 223679L100279. Body No. LOS500311.

For a couple seasons, he and a couple IDOJ cast members were given the cars they drove on the show for personal use and after the last episode was in the can in April each season, the Title was given to them and they had to get it registered in their own names, transfer plates, etc.

Bill recalls that the keys to the car were given to him at the Studio by a production staff employee before the first episode was shot in early Sept. 1968, right after Labor Day as he recalls. He noticed the "goofy" body parts and asked the guy if that was the new model style. The guy told him he didn't think so, told him it was something George Barris put together and that he had picked it up from Barris' shop. Barris was well known around Hollywood, so Daily knew the car was customized in some way, but didn't know exactly what was custom.

I asked and he went to the garage and looked, the Time Built code on the Data Plate is 8D (I know it is actually 08D but the 0 on the '69 Van Nuys Data Plate is always hidden under the rivet).

He said he had some fun with the car. Told me Larry Hagman was more of a hot rodder, but the two of them had some "stoplight drag races" on occasion. He never thought the car was anything real special, there were lots of Firebird convertibles around LA at the time.

The next season, he didn't get a new car, continued to drive the Firebird to work. When IDOJ was cancelled at the end of that season, he went on to enjoy a nice career but he was no superstar. The car fit his "style" in the first few years, young ladies thought "it was cool", and after awhile it just sort of followed him around, so he kept it. His current wife always liked it, so he had it "fixed up, painted, new top" about 10 years ago for her. The shop that did the work knew about PHS and that is when he got the paperwork for it. His wife drives it around town these days, usually with the top down. He says it is a "gas guzzler" but at their age, it doesn't get too many miles. He says countless people have left notes on it over the years offering to buy it, but he says his son, who works in Hollywood, has dibs on it.

He says he's never heard of Jim Wangers. He knew Pontiac supplied a lot of the cars but doesn't remember having any contact with any Pontiac people. I asked him what dealer the PHS paperwork shows, but he didn't know, and couldn't remember where he put the paperwork. He said he never took it in for any service, that was handled by the production people and after it became his, he would get somebody to take care of oil changes and tune ups for him. He was never a "car guy".

The above story is a figment of my imagination, but that is what is great about America, I can make stuff up and even if there are no facts to support the story, it sure is fun to yank everybody's chain! And two years from now, somebody will remember reading this, forget that I made it all up, and retell it as if it was a true story.

Of course, anybody interested in SERIOUS research could go ahead and contact Bill Daily himself. He could dig up real facts about the episodes in which the car appears. He could contact George Barris to see what he might remember about the IDOJ car. He could see if Barris has records of the components sold or perhaps knows of a particular Hollywood area Pontiac dealership that was known for making the custom retrofits. He could contact Jim Wangers and confront him with the discrepancies in the TA claim and see if he is steadfast or if perhaps he will admit to being fuzzy about what the IDOJ car really was. Did you ask him if he placed the order for the car? Did you ask him if he was involved in negotiating the contract between Pontiac and the IDOJ producers? Did you ask him if he was involved in the decision for specifying what models of cars would be featured? In other words, did you ask him if the reason he believes the car was a TA was because he was personally involved in the procurement and supply of the IDOJ cars or was it because he vaguely remembers reading in one of the car enthusiast magazines or maybe having some hobbyist at a Pontiac event during the last 20 years telling him that they used a TA on the IDOJ show?

1969T/A, you are hanging your hat on what Jim Wangers told you during a recent phone call because "he was there". Did it ever dawn on you that not everything the man says is based on his own personal involvement?

If there was even a shred of evidence to support the notion that the IDOJ car was a TA, what Wangers stated would be interesting. Instead, there is a ton of physical evidence that suggests the IDOJ car could not have been a TA.

A saying made famous by the late Sen. Daniel P. Moynihan applies, you are indeed entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

[MikeNoun]

1969 T/A, I read the story. In fact, I have the article and the magazine. Within the issue, there's also a 4-page story with a LOT more information about the last known Superteen Firebird (currently restored). It's gunmetal gray now.

1. All I stated (for the 5th time) was that the PARTS used on the Superteen Firebird were used on the "I Dream Of Jeannie" car. Therefore, the "I Dream Of Jeannie" is NOT a 1969 Trans Am.

2. Yep, George Barris says he contacted DeLorean and Wangers back in 1968 (like I said).

3. Back to your post about your conversation with Wangers:

Originally Posted by 1969T/A

I talked to Jim Wangers on the phone today.
I asked him it he ever heard of a "promo 350 engined trans am"
He told me that there were none that he was aware of
I then asked him if he knew of any "PFST" with 350's
He told me that the "PFST" had nothing to do with the 1969 trans am's.

The 1968 PFST was absolutely THE base for the 1969 Trans Am. Not sure what Jim meant by his comment? In his own book (page 195) he states, "They developed a test car called the PFST, which stood for Pontiac Firebird Sprint Turismo. We laughed at the name, but more importantly, the PFST became the godfather of the Trans Am."

Originally Posted by 1969T/A

During our conversation.
I asked him about the "I Dream Of Jeanie Car". He told me that it was a "1969 trans am" that was given to the show for advertising. But it was not to be "sold" and he was not sure how many were made for the show. He also told me they do not know what happened to the car or cars. And there is no way of tracking it. Because there are no records on file.

If it was a 1969 Trans Am, why can't it be tracked? All 8 cars are known and documented. If Jim isn't sure "how many they were made for the show", isn't that proof the IDOJ car was NOT a Trans Am? Easy answer: it wasn't a 1969 Trans Am, it was a Firebird 400.

John V. - Great story! I'll buy it! What Bill Daily didn't tell you was that Jeannie used to "blink" the car into a green Firebird 400 with a 3-piece spoiler, then back to a green 1969 Trans Am, then sometimes into a 63 Plymouth Savoy (just to piss off the directors and make then vomit).


And yes, back to the ORIGINAL topic, there weren't any 350 powered 1969 Trans Am's.

[Cammer-6]

John,up until the last paragraph you had me hooked and was reeling me in . I was on the edge of my seat.
Time has a way of erasing important details...ask me how I know.
2nd to go is the memory...... I forgot what the first was.

[MikeNoun]

I finally loaded up my "I Dream Of Jeannie" Pontiac footage montage (I need to put this on YouTube), and took a few screen prints. The 1969 Firebirds appeared in Season 5 (I'm sure someone will buy the DVD box when Season 5 comes out), but this is all I have so far.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2425321...n/photostream/

[The Boss]

Cool pics Mike, keep em coming.

John, you had me excited there for a few minutes!

[John V.]

Well, I'll be danged. Season 5. Never expected that.

The pic clip of the back of Maj. Healey's 'bird is from "My Master, The Chili King".

It appears in the intro scene for the episode.

You can view it on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sJcs...eature=related

If you watch the clip, aside from seeing the spoiler is clearly the Barris style and not a TA style, you can also see the 400 badge on the decklid.

You want to believe somebody took a TA and then slapped a 400 badge on the decklid?

Looks like a Limelight Green car with the tail panel painted white.

This episode was the final episode in the series, aired May 26, 1970.

Okay, so what other episode(s) does this car appear in?

[MikeNoun]

I am uploading my "Pontiac/I Dream Of Jeannie" collection to YouTube as I type this. I will post the link for all when it is finished.

John, there's one shot where Tony peels out in his yellow 1969 Firebird 400 convertible (top down) while Roger is standing behind the car holding a person back (Roger's Bird is parked next to Tony's Bird). When Tony peels out, we see Roger's green Firebird in full side profile. It does NOT have the Trans Am side scoops, and it has the George Barris air extractors mounted backwards, in front of the rear wheelwell, with a couple body side stripes.

So as we've stated several times in this thread, Jim Wangers was indeed wrong. It wasn't a 1969 Trans Am.

[MikeNoun]

Ok, the 2 clips are up! Hope you enjoy them!

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iax-0rIiqgU

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScoW9...p;feature=user

[1969T/A]

There's better clips of the car then these
There's one when it pulls in the drive way and you can
see the nose of the car and the complete side of car for about
10-15 seconds.
But Im not sure what season it was on.
But these are a start.

[MikeNoun]

I have some more, but my other clips weren't all connected together on my old VHS tapes. (there were also a lot of 1965 GTO shots from the 1st season). I'm sure someone will be able to put together a complete set of Pontiac shots from the DVD's after the 5th season is released this summer. In fact, there may be additional scenes on the DVD's that may have been cut in the episodes when they went to syndication, I'm not sure.

Someone would have to be a pretty big fan of the show to buy all 5 seasons! I thought most of the IDOJ episodes were virtually unwatchable (just my opinion), but it seemed like as the years went by, the ratings sank, and Jeannie's skirts were higher and higher.

[Cammer-6]

I thought most of the IDOJ episodes were virtually unwatchable (just my opinion), but it seemed like as the years went by, the ratings sank, and Jeannie's skirts were higher and higher.[/QUOTE]

You do remember the 60s dont you?
Micro minis and the Jet skirt.

Of course they say if you can remember the 60s you really werent there.

The part I cant handle with the sitcoms is the canned laughter.
Have you tried the mute function while viewing?

[John V.]

MikeN., I agree. IDOJ car was built as a 400, not a TA.

But one thing bugging me. The rear quarter brake cooling duct scoops on the IDOJ car do not look like the ones on the Super Teen car at all.

They don't look like the TA Air Extractor moldings either.

I thought somewhere I had a pic of the PFST to check the look of the brake scoops used on it, but can't find it.

They are positioned below the belt line, like TA extractors whereas the Super Teen has one above, one below. But they look more squared off than TA extractors.

So either the Barris aftermarket brake scoops were revised from the Super Teen style or maybe the scoops on the IDOJ car came from somewhere else?

You have any pix showing the aftermarket Barris scoops from advertising or actual pieces that somebody owns?

Comments?

[1969T/A]

Originally Posted by John V.

But one thing bugging me. The rear quarter brake cooling duct scoops on the IDOJ car do not look like the ones on the Super Teen car at all.

If, My memory is correct they are 1969 trans am scoops that are turned upside down and place on the lower front quarter panels. They show them very clearly in a scene in the show when the car pulls in the driveway. Also in that scene the car does not have white strips on the doors,fenders,quarter panels. If I'm correct.

[Cammer-6]

Originally Posted by John V.

MikeN., I agree. IDOJ car was built as a 400, not a TA.

But one thing bugging me. The rear quarter brake cooling duct scoops on the IDOJ car do not look like the ones on the Super Teen car at all.

They don't look like the TA Air Extractor moldings either.

I thought somewhere I had a pic of the PFST to check the look of the brake scoops used on it, but can't find it.

They are positioned below the belt line, like TA extractors whereas the Super Teen has one above, one below. But they look more squared off than TA extractors.

So either the Barris aftermarket brake scoops were revised from the Super Teen style or maybe the scoops on the IDOJ car came from somewhere else?

You have any pix showing the aftermarket Barris scoops from advertising or actual pieces that somebody owns?

Comments?

Hood tach housings were used on alot of custom applications.

I was asked to help document a 68 400 that had alot of unusual custom twists to it.
It looked like it was some type of promo dealer prepped car and had the rear brake"scoops" that werent functional.
Owner was thinking they were "factory" and I pointed out the piercings for louver trim. He also thought it could have been a PFST.I still have pics of that car in my old crashed HD. He sold it on ebay for about $3500,was too rusty for me to tackle. Older you get the fussier you are. Lifes too short to restore rusty cars.

[Ducks Goat]

Here's a couple of pics I took of the Super Teen car that was at Norwalk last year.

upload failed, will try again later

[John V.]

1969T/A, I don't think the rear quarter scoops on the IDOJ car are '69 TA front fender air extractor moldings. I'd like to get a better view of them, but the IDOJ scoops look more pronounced than the TA moldings, IMO.

Here is a theory.

The Super Teen scoops were apparently cleverly designed to install at the rear quarter gills on the '68 'bird, one above and one below the belt line, covering over the standard gills and accounting for how wide Barris made the scoops for the '68.

For '69, these gills were gone. Now there were two stylistic stampings added to the front fender, both below the belt line. The TA fender moldings were cleverly designed to install at these front fender locations.

But I'm guessing Barris created the rear quarter scoops that we see on the IDOJ car specifically for '69 maybe because the '68 scoops wouldn't have worked (too wide) and certainly because, stylistically, it made sense to have the rear scoops align with the front fender stampings (IMO anyway, it was an attractive arrangement on the IDOJ car).

I suppose they could be TA moldings but they don't look like they are to my eye and in any event, trying to adapt the TA moldings to the rear quarter may have been more difficult for Barris than creating a specific scoop from scratch.

My bet, that is what he did and that is what we see on the IDOJ car.

[Bjorn]

Originally Posted by John V.

Spoke to Bill Daily (Maj. Healey on IDOJ) last night, he is a neighbor of my Uncle in Albuquerque. Asked him about the green Firebird convertible he drove on IDOJ. Turns out, he still owns it and it is PHS documented. It is a 400 convertible, auto trans. VIN 223679L100279. Body No. LOS500311.

For a couple seasons, he and a couple IDOJ cast members were given the cars they drove on the show for personal use and after the last episode was in the can in April each season, the Title was given to them and they had to get it registered in their own names, transfer plates, etc.

Bill recalls that the keys to the car were given to him at the Studio by a production staff employee before the first episode was shot in early Sept. 1968, right after Labor Day as he recalls. He noticed the "goofy" body parts and asked the guy if that was the new model style. The guy told him he didn't think so, told him it was something George Barris put together and that he had picked it up from Barris' shop. Barris was well known around Hollywood, so Daily knew the car was customized in some way, but didn't know exactly what was custom.

I asked and he went to the garage and looked, the Time Built code on the Data Plate is 8D (I know it is actually 08D but the 0 on the '69 Van Nuys Data Plate is always hidden under the rivet).

He said he had some fun with the car. Told me Larry Hagman was more of a hot rodder, but the two of them had some "stoplight drag races" on occasion. He never thought the car was anything real special, there were lots of Firebird convertibles around LA at the time.

The next season, he didn't get a new car, continued to drive the Firebird to work. When IDOJ was cancelled at the end of that season, he went on to enjoy a nice career but he was no superstar. The car fit his "style" in the first few years, young ladies thought "it was cool", and after awhile it just sort of followed him around, so he kept it. His current wife always liked it, so he had it "fixed up, painted, new top" about 10 years ago for her. The shop that did the work knew about PHS and that is when he got the paperwork for it. His wife drives it around town these days, usually with the top down. He says it is a "gas guzzler" but at their age, it doesn't get too many miles. He says countless people have left notes on it over the years offering to buy it, but he says his son, who works in Hollywood, has dibs on it.

He says he's never heard of Jim Wangers. He knew Pontiac supplied a lot of the cars but doesn't remember having any contact with any Pontiac people. I asked him what dealer the PHS paperwork shows, but he didn't know, and couldn't remember where he put the paperwork. He said he never took it in for any service, that was handled by the production people and after it became his, he would get somebody to take care of oil changes and tune ups for him. He was never a "car guy".

The above story is a figment of my imagination, but that is what is great about America, I can make stuff up and even if there are no facts to support the story, it sure is fun to yank everybody's chain! And two years from now, somebody will remember reading this, forget that I made it all up, and retell it as if it was a true story.

Of course, anybody interested in SERIOUS research could go ahead and contact Bill Daily himself. He could dig up real facts about the episodes in which the car appears. He could contact George Barris to see what he might remember about the IDOJ car. He could see if Barris has records of the components sold or perhaps knows of a particular Hollywood area Pontiac dealership that was known for making the custom retrofits. He could contact Jim Wangers and confront him with the discrepancies in the TA claim and see if he is steadfast or if perhaps he will admit to being fuzzy about what the IDOJ car really was. Did you ask him if he placed the order for the car? Did you ask him if he was involved in negotiating the contract between Pontiac and the IDOJ producers? Did you ask him if he was involved in the decision for specifying what models of cars would be featured? In other words, did you ask him if the reason he believes the car was a TA was because he was personally involved in the procurement and supply of the IDOJ cars or was it because he vaguely remembers reading in one of the car enthusiast magazines or maybe having some hobbyist at a Pontiac event during the last 20 years telling him that they used a TA on the IDOJ show?

1969T/A, you are hanging your hat on what Jim Wangers told you during a recent phone call because "he was there". Did it ever dawn on you that not everything the man says is based on his own personal involvement?

If there was even a shred of evidence to support the notion that the IDOJ car was a TA, what Wangers stated would be interesting. Instead, there is a ton of physical evidence that suggests the IDOJ car could not have been a TA.

A saying made famous by the late Sen. Daniel P. Moynihan applies, you are indeed entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

great story though! false or not, makes for a great story telling

[1969T/A]

Originally Posted by John V.

1969T/A, I don't think the rear quarter scoops on the IDOJ car are '69 TA front fender air extractor moldings. I'd like to get a better view of them, but the IDOJ scoops look more pronounced than the TA moldings, IMO.

Here is a theory.

The Super Teen scoops were apparently cleverly designed to install at the rear quarter gills on the '68 'bird, one above and one below the belt line, covering over the standard gills and accounting for how wide Barris made the scoops for the '68.

For '69, these gills were gone. Now there were two stylistic stampings added to the front fender, both below the belt line. The TA fender moldings were cleverly designed to install at these front fender locations.

But I'm guessing Barris created the rear quarter scoops that we see on the IDOJ car specifically for '69 maybe because the '68 scoops wouldn't have worked (too wide) and certainly because, stylistically, it made sense to have the rear scoops align with the front fender stampings (IMO anyway, it was an attractive arrangement on the IDOJ car).

I suppose they could be TA moldings but they don't look like they are to my eye and in any event, trying to adapt the TA moldings to the rear quarter may have been more difficult for Barris than creating a specific scoop from scratch.

My bet, that is what he did and that is what we see on the IDOJ car.

You made a very good point when you said "I'm guessing".
Like I said before there's a scene in the show. If I'm correct were you can see the side of the car and they look like "1969 trans am scoops". The car "does not" have white strips going down the side of it could there be two different IDOJ cars?