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#41
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After a longer than anticipated hiatus, I'm getting closer. ECU is mounted in the car, Tunerstudio communicates with it. Got the coils mounted to their brackets. I'll get them mounted in the car one day this week. I still can't visualize a way they aren't gonna be ugly... But I look forward to the benefit of fully tunable timing. Then wiring... Gonna run this on sequential spark and work through the timing curve. Fuel will follow.
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'65 Tempest 467 3650# 11.30@120.31 |
#42
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Nice work and killer thread Scott65. - what's the base motor? 389? 455?
I looked for AGES for a good hidden spot for my coilpacks but I ended up just nut-serting them to the firewall. I have a few posts on my website about my EFI swap (wasted spark ignition, sequential fuelling) www.bargegarage.com PS: Kris are you the helpdesk for all EFI Pontiacs? |
#43
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Marv, it's a 467. Has SD ported Eheads, and a hyd. roller. Good work on yours, looks nice.
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'65 Tempest 467 3650# 11.30@120.31 |
#44
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Which coils did you end up going with? Are those the "truck/suv" coils?
I saw some info recently where if they are given too much dwell time, they might fire early and cause engine damage. Some sort of temperature or over-current protection I think. I'll have to look for that info again, see which part number it is... |
#45
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Mine are the d585 truck coils. I've heard that too. Basically keep dwell less than 4ms is what I've gathered from it. I'm naturally aspirated, so I don't see a problem. I haven't done the math, but I imagine even with that limitation, there's still as much or more dwell than ever was available at high rpms with one coil supplying 8 cylinders...
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'65 Tempest 467 3650# 11.30@120.31 |
#46
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Quote:
Your car should scoot with that combo - I wish I'd pushed my cubes out more and gone for a hydraulic roller instead of the flat tappet cam. |
#47
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Not really trying to hide them, just want to avoid having them look like an eye sore... And also trying to avoid longer plug wires. They're probably gonna get mounted to the valve covers for now. If everything works right, I'll try to come up with something better. Gonna take some deeper thought.
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'65 Tempest 467 3650# 11.30@120.31 |
#48
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Not progressing as fast as I'd hoped, but the drivers side is mounted. As predicted, it's not attractive... But it's not an abomination either (except to the purist perhaps) It will work. I think the future holds a set of fabricated aluminum valve covers, with threaded standoffs welded to the top for a more attractive package. AFTER I get it all dialed in. More to come...
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'65 Tempest 467 3650# 11.30@120.31 Last edited by Scott65; 04-17-2019 at 10:35 PM. Reason: Add photo |
#49
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That's pretty clean... my only thought is, in my case, separating the 2/3 coils so the center-fill valve covers will still work.
Keep up the great work!
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John IG: @crawdaddycustoms YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK9...Nc_lk1Q/videos |
#50
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I put mine on the fenderwells, not too bad, i will post a pic when i get home
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#51
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My fill hole caused issues too. The baffle extends over past the hole, so I had to keep the bolt holes away farther than you'd think at first glance. If you look closely, I offset the end bracket one coil over, so I could get the end coil close to the breather, and to keep the back coil wire from pointing right at the master cylinder. It's no surprise really, that it's challenging adding stuff that was never intended to be there. Just doing the best I can within my means...
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'65 Tempest 467 3650# 11.30@120.31 |
#52
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I considered that, but I've attempted to avoid putting any extra holes in the sheet metal, if there's another suitable option available.
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'65 Tempest 467 3650# 11.30@120.31 |
#53
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All coils now mounted, and tested with the MS3 test mode. (Nice feature) All work, in correct sequence. Cranking timing set, had to change my number one angle by 10. Not bad for eye balling the sensor location I guess. When I get all the plug wires made (a terrible ordeal so far) I guess I can see if it will run.
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'65 Tempest 467 3650# 11.30@120.31 Last edited by Scott65; 04-19-2019 at 07:59 PM. Reason: Correction |
#54
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Running!
Had a very successful first start. Ended up the 10 degrees I changed, was correct where I started. I was checking while just cranking (with the plugs in so slow,and not super steady). While running, it ended up that my initial setting was spot on. Changed my crank angle back to 40, double checked fixed timing, and turned it loose on the timing map. Rock solid timing, follows the map accurately. I obviously haven't checked every cell... But it's rock steady. Will hopefully test drive later, maybe. Still have to find a way to cover the cam sync. Which surprisingly works like a champ! No sync loss issues at all.
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'65 Tempest 467 3650# 11.30@120.31 |
#55
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Awesome, nice work! The coil packs look good with those brackets. Spark only or fuel control too? I started out fuel only, but once I added timing control it was a night and day difference. A well set up distributor can get close, but nothing beats the smoothness, lack of compromises, and ease of tuning of a spark map
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#56
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Scott65 - would you be willing to summarize the parts and how you mounted crank trigger / cam position sensor?
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#57
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Quote:
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'65 Tempest 467 3650# 11.30@120.31 Last edited by Scott65; 04-21-2019 at 07:42 PM. Reason: Correction |
#58
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Absolutely! I used a 36-1 trigger wheel from DIY Autotune. Had to find a spot for the sensor to mount. When I had that, I figured out where I needed tooth 1 to end up in relation to the balancer holes that mount the crank pulley. Then I took it to a machine shop to have the bolt pattern accurately drilled, and the hole for the snout bored. It needs to be precise, as little runout as possible. There are pictures of this earlier in this thread. For the cam sensor, I decided to use a half moon style that utilizes a "polled" logic in the ecu. It was explained that that method syncs faster, and I can say now from experience it syncs very quickly. There are also pictures of this earlier in this thread as well. The sensors are "tabbed" hall sensors from DIY Auto tune as well. I am using the MS3 Pro Ultimate ECU. There are cheaper versions of MS that will do sequential fuel and spark. But this will definitely grow with my abilities. It will do things I don't even understand. Falls under the "do it once" deal for me... The coils are LS logic level truck coils. MS won't drive coils that don't have a built in ignitor without adding an ignitor. These can be driven directly. I got them off eBay with the wiring harness for $70. They all worked, thankfully. Any other questions feel free.
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'65 Tempest 467 3650# 11.30@120.31 Last edited by Scott65; 04-21-2019 at 07:58 PM. Reason: Addition |
#59
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Awesome work Scott. If you want to send me that MSQ file and your injector size/part number, I can transpose a fuel/spark map that should get you a long way there. Are you using a GM type stepper idle motor too? If so, I'd recommend disabling it in the tune for now and just using the throttle stop until it's properly tuned so it returns to idle nicely, then what I do is put the car in park/neutral, set closed loop idle to on and wind down the throttle stop until the motor opens about 10 steps, then zero the TPS when closed. With a large enough "I" setting in the PID control, it'll seek commanded idle speed relatively well. Increasing the "P" value will make it react faster and increasing "D" will dampen the motor as it approaches target to help control overshoot if you run a large proportional value.
With your polled sensor, i've not used one of them before, so i'd just follow the manual to make sure you're on the right phase before #1 TDC but if you're seeing full sync now, then you're set!
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'71 Holden HQ Monaro - 3850lbs race weight, 400c/i - 11.4 @ 120 '66 Pontiac GTO - 389, 4 speed street cruiser |
#60
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Thanks Kris. I posted a composite log on the MSEXTRA site before I tried to fire it, and Matt said it looked good, no sync issues. That gave me enough confidence to move forward. It starts quick, and is in sequential spark, so all's well on that it seems. Runs well and timing is very stable and as commanded. I sent the file back that you sent me. I'm using the injectors you recommended, same as yours I think. I think you were running them at 60psi, I'm gonna run them at 43.5 psi. Will do on the IAC motor. That was my plan, as I like simple. I'll get it running with the minimum of variables as possible. Then start bringing the extra features in gradually. Baby steps for me...
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'65 Tempest 467 3650# 11.30@120.31 |
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