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  #21  
Old 11-05-2024, 04:24 AM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 585bird View Post
I asked for my deposit back .Just too many unknowns for me to take the next step .
It is documented (via PHS) on the 69 Judge Registry . com
Invoiced the same day as Richards Ram4 car from Dick Marson in Yakima WA
And another Ram4 that went to Pontiac Plaza in Portland Oregon on same day.
All 3 are Fremont Ram4 4spd Judge cars.
No other Ram4 Judge cars from Fremont listed until April 69

It should have some known history -somewhere- probably sponsored or raced by Bud Meadows ...

  #22  
Old 11-05-2024, 04:50 AM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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Just discovered ,
It appears Bud Meadows also owned that Pontiac dealership in Portland Oregon.
Where the 3rd car went.

This is in reference to a 67 Catalina car :
Quote:
JEFF WARNOCK Posted September 1, 2018 at 10:43 AM
I am the current owner of this car. My father was the fleet sales manager for 30+ years at Bud Meadows Pontiac in Portland Oregon, where this car first rolled off the showroom. As a “fleet” car, it has no comfort options. Less than 6000 of these built in 67.


Last edited by Baron Von Zeppelin; 11-05-2024 at 05:02 AM.
  #23  
Old 11-05-2024, 05:21 AM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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The Bud Meadows and Pontiac Plaza both have lower VIN's than Richards car from Dick Marson.
But all were invoiced (and most likely built) on the same day.
Bud car is the lowest VIN

  #24  
Old 11-05-2024, 02:31 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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Car is becoming really interesting.
Most likely is appearing to be the 1st Ram IV Judge

The VIN's are assigned in order of when they were approved and scheduled for build.
It doesn't guarantee which one of these 3 actually rolled across the finish line as completed first.
We would need the Invoice Number from all 3

Until that is determined , lowest VIN wins.
Invoice Number PZB224806 (tenatively - not exactly crystal clear)
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  #25  
Old 11-05-2024, 03:20 PM
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65 Lamnas 65 Lamnas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin View Post
The carb is def restamped.
I'm not sure it is really known how many 4.33 cars were built.
That may not be a real factoid , can't remember reading that on Fred's sheets.
Fred Simmonds provided all our historical data in those type regards.
Agree 100% on the carb restamp.

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  #26  
Old 11-05-2024, 03:30 PM
585bird 585bird is offline
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Also the first judges off the assembly line didn’t have the judge decal on the glove box?

  #27  
Old 11-05-2024, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Invoice Number PZB224806
I think it might be '5'24xxx?

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Old 11-05-2024, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Also the first judges off the assembly line didn’t have the judge decal on the glove box?

Yes. (emblem)

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  #29  
Old 11-05-2024, 06:42 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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The first Judges were built in January.
They were all Ram Air 3 - and built to "pattern specs".

This is "the" or at least "one of the" first known Ram Air 4 Judges ever built.
Different caliber - different price class - whole different enchilada .

Richard Sargent's Judge from Dick Marson held that title for.many years.
Now we have 2 more examples built the same day.
In general we don't start seeing Ram Air 4 Judges until later in March.
About the same time they lifted the "Orange Only" ruling.


The Center Dash GTO emblems on non-ac cars ended in 02B
02C examples had neither.
02D was the start of the glovebox emblems.
This is the best grip we can get on that through years of examples of unrestored cars.
It doesn't mean that an exception may never be found.
Restored cars usually end up getting one or both emblems no matter how they were originally built.


Last edited by Baron Von Zeppelin; 11-05-2024 at 06:52 PM.
  #30  
Old 11-05-2024, 06:46 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnta1 View Post
I think it might be '5'24xxx?
Someone will have to check existing files to see where that invoice number falls in line with Fremont GTO examples in that date range. To make the best stab at what that invoice number is.

All my files are trapped.

  #31  
Old 11-05-2024, 07:06 PM
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This is one I have. Maybe Richard's?


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  #32  
Old 11-05-2024, 07:54 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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Yes that is Richard Sargent's car.
Looks like it beat the lower VIN car to the finish line by the Invoice Number !
Great that you could share that John.

Richard = 524797 -- VIN z117774
Bud ==== 524806 -- VIN z117723


The hideaways and antenna might have slowed its roll coming down the GM side.
... or who knows

  #33  
Old 11-05-2024, 08:38 PM
585bird 585bird is offline
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So is this the first judge across the assembly line ?

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  #34  
Old 11-05-2024, 09:58 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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No
We aren't sure it's a Judge yet.
Too many unknowns.
We do know Fremont was a Chevy plant. So this could even be an Oldsmobile.
I wouldn't declare anything until getting documentation from Ford.

  #35  
Old 11-06-2024, 10:27 PM
585bird 585bird is offline
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I think it is documented from PHS as a Judge .Well according to the for sale add.

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