[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by 585bird

I asked for my deposit back .Just too many unknowns for me to take the next step .

It is documented (via PHS) on the 69 Judge Registry . com
Invoiced the same day as Richards Ram4 car from Dick Marson in Yakima WA
And another Ram4 that went to Pontiac Plaza in Portland Oregon on same day.
All 3 are Fremont Ram4 4spd Judge cars.
No other Ram4 Judge cars from Fremont listed until April 69

It should have some known history -somewhere- probably sponsored or raced by Bud Meadows ...

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Just discovered ,
It appears Bud Meadows also owned that Pontiac dealership in Portland Oregon.
Where the 3rd car went.

This is in reference to a 67 Catalina car :

JEFF WARNOCK Posted September 1, 2018 at 10:43 AM
I am the current owner of this car. My father was the fleet sales manager for 30+ years at Bud Meadows Pontiac in Portland Oregon, where this car first rolled off the showroom. As a “fleet” car, it has no comfort options. Less than 6000 of these built in 67.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The Bud Meadows and Pontiac Plaza both have lower VIN's than Richards car from Dick Marson.
But all were invoiced (and most likely built) on the same day.
Bud car is the lowest VIN

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Car is becoming really interesting.
Most likely is appearing to be the 1st Ram IV Judge

The VIN's are assigned in order of when they were approved and scheduled for build.
It doesn't guarantee which one of these 3 actually rolled across the finish line as completed first.
We would need the Invoice Number from all 3

Until that is determined , lowest VIN wins.
Invoice Number PZB224806 (tenatively - not exactly crystal clear)

[65 Lamnas]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

The carb is def restamped.
I'm not sure it is really known how many 4.33 cars were built.
That may not be a real factoid , can't remember reading that on Fred's sheets.
Fred Simmonds provided all our historical data in those type regards.

Agree 100% on the carb restamp.

[585bird]

Also the first judges off the assembly line didn’t have the judge decal on the glove box?

[johnta1]

Invoice Number PZB224806

I think it might be '5'24xxx?

[johnta1]

Also the first judges off the assembly line didn’t have the judge decal on the glove box?

Yes. (emblem)

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The first Judges were built in January.
They were all Ram Air 3 - and built to "pattern specs".

This is "the" or at least "one of the" first known Ram Air 4 Judges ever built.
Different caliber - different price class - whole different enchilada .

Richard Sargent's Judge from Dick Marson held that title for.many years.
Now we have 2 more examples built the same day.
In general we don't start seeing Ram Air 4 Judges until later in March.
About the same time they lifted the "Orange Only" ruling.


The Center Dash GTO emblems on non-ac cars ended in 02B
02C examples had neither.
02D was the start of the glovebox emblems.
This is the best grip we can get on that through years of examples of unrestored cars.
It doesn't mean that an exception may never be found.
Restored cars usually end up getting one or both emblems no matter how they were originally built.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by johnta1

I think it might be '5'24xxx?

Someone will have to check existing files to see where that invoice number falls in line with Fremont GTO examples in that date range. To make the best stab at what that invoice number is.

All my files are trapped.

[johnta1]

This is one I have. Maybe Richard's?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Yes that is Richard Sargent's car.
Looks like it beat the lower VIN car to the finish line by the Invoice Number !
Great that you could share that John.

Richard = 524797 -- VIN z117774
Bud ==== 524806 -- VIN z117723


The hideaways and antenna might have slowed its roll coming down the GM side.
... or who knows

[585bird]

So is this the first judge across the assembly line ?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

No
We aren't sure it's a Judge yet.
Too many unknowns.
We do know Fremont was a Chevy plant. So this could even be an Oldsmobile.
I wouldn't declare anything until getting documentation from Ford.

[585bird]

I think it is documented from PHS as a Judge .Well according to the for sale add.