GTO Sales Flop........Detroit News, May 24,04 - Page 4 - PY Online Forums

455HOGT37 · #61 06-14-2004, 08:08 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Nickv:

...I will say again and don't make me quote examples. One thing to deride GM or the new GTO, it's another thing when you call us buyers of the car idiots or uninformed consumers.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, Ok, I see one of the main problems here. Now everyone listen up, and hopefully this will be crystal clear: I have never implied that anyone is an idiot or uninformed simply because they purchased or like the Holden "GTO". If the car suits you, I think that is great. Honest. What I have done is pointed out that like the world around us, this site has its share of idiots. Some of them just happen to own an 04 "GTO" and have no fear of showing the world their IQ. Might not have been the most diplomatic approach perhaps, but we are all adults here.

I'm guessing it is way too late to talk objectively about the car, right?

HUMBLER · #62 06-16-2004, 04:20 AM

Go back and re-read your fist post in this thread and you expect objectivity?

The problem is what you imply or not is always hard to interpret in a post, hence most just putting their own spin on comments made. Very hard for all to know exactly where anyone is coming from.

Go post a negative GTO article from the 60's in the Lobby and see where you get...

charlzm · #63 06-16-2004, 08:50 AM

Okay, so we can all agree that GM hasn't handled the marketing of this car properly if it hasn't sold as well as they thought it would. Can we move on, now?

For my money, it sounds like they are doing to the '05 from the factory what I had been thinking of doing to an '04 with aftermarket parts. I'm sold!

I'm curious to see how the Solstice fares when it's released. A $20k roadster with reasonable performance? I'll bet it will be about two days after street date before the first one is sporting an aftermarket turbo and about 1 model year before GM ups the HP with their "X" version.

One more thing to ponder: on "halo" cars, don't automakers generally lose money or barely break even?

455HOGT37 · #64 06-16-2004, 09:21 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by humbler:
Go back and re-read your fist post in this thread and you expect objectivity?

The problem is what you imply or not is always hard to interpret in a post, hence most just putting their own spin on comments made. Very hard for all to know exactly where anyone is coming from.

Go post a negative GTO article from the 60's in the Lobby and see where you get... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hello pot, this is kettle calling!

The only person who has shown any class at all in this thread was the originator, Mr. Bayard.
The fact that he contined to show class long after some of you started slinging the insults completely amazed me. That was my main point.

You want a negative article from the early days? How about the sham road test of the 64 with the 421 in it, or the 2+2 vs Ferrari that never happened. That's old news. How about the cars themselves? The brakes, suspension, oiling system, heads and lots of other things... all suck. That is why we modify them to death. The main difference is back then, they were very popular and sold like crazy (Tempest, LeMans, GTO). We're now talking about the present and future of the company. Something we can shape and mold.

Not looking for an argument, just an improved product.

HUMBLER · #65 06-17-2004, 04:38 AM

Your interpretation of my comments are completely wrong. I rest my case...

disc0monkey · #66 06-17-2004, 01:33 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by svede1212:
he has a "fabulous BMW". i'm glad he doesn't have a GTO and hope he doesn't get one. i think glenn that you'll find the people who connect with this car don't "connect" with you. have a nice day :~) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

get a life

, if u guys dont like dont open it...i mean its very obvious what he wanted to say right in the topic.

phendee · #67 06-17-2004, 02:13 PM

Wanting improvement is one thing. Being
Aholes is another. Use a little tact when
you post up here and you won't get such a cold
shoulder. Show some class or go away Glenn
and 455whatsyourname

pont3 · #68 06-17-2004, 06:49 PM

Just want to say to Mr Bayard you make some very informed observations. However, I do not condone your reference to Bob Lutz and his staff of being idiots. They did their homework and produced what would be accepted by the widest possible demograph based on market analysis. I have owned many new cars from Chevy to Ford to Toyota to BMW. Not one of them was perfect. I have possessed at least one Pontiac throughout my driving life and at least some opinions had complaints about each one. The body cladding Pontiac was so famous for during the '80's and '90's was deemed unsightly by nearly every automotive publications produced, but in my opinio, it looked great. I have not yet purchased the '04 GTO but I will within the next few weeks. I, too, considered the G35 Coupe, and 3 series BMW, but in my opinion, the GTO is a superior buy. If the car doesn't measure up to your standards, buy whatever does measure up. But don't knock what is desirable to other people.
Side air bags, or any airbags for that matter, are of absolutely no importance to me. I live in the St. Louis Metro area and as my daily driver 88 Monte SS, 71 Lemans Sport, neither of which has airbags, anti-lock brakes or any modern so-called safety equipment. I drive courteously and safely and I feel more secure in either of these vehicles than my wife's '03 Z71.

glenn bayard · #69 06-23-2004, 08:30 PM

I just wanted to thank the many good people on this site. My purpose was simply to make 'someone' at GM/Pontiac aware of what most, not all for sure, potential buyers are seeking. I love much of the GTO, yet can't accept it's moderate number of shortcomings.............ie it would have been relatively easy to address, IF GM/Pontiac was genuinely interested in producing a really good car....they were SO close, but choose to save maybe $1000 a unit by serious short changing. This sadens me, since in 68 they seemed to have gotten EVERYTHING just about right.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by pont3:
Just want to say to Mr Bayard you make some very informed observations. However, I do not condone your reference to Bob Lutz and his staff of being idiots. They did their homework and produced what would be accepted by the widest possible demograph based on market analysis. I have owned many new cars from Chevy to Ford to Toyota to BMW. Not one of them was perfect. I have possessed at least one Pontiac throughout my driving life and at least some opinions had complaints about each one. The body cladding Pontiac was so famous for during the '80's and '90's was deemed unsightly by nearly every automotive publications produced, but in my opinio, it looked great. I have not yet purchased the '04 GTO but I will within the next few weeks. I, too, considered the G35 Coupe, and 3 series BMW, but in my opinion, the GTO is a superior buy. If the car doesn't measure up to your standards, buy whatever does measure up. But don't knock what is desirable to other people.
Side air bags, or any airbags for that matter, are of absolutely no importance to me. I live in the St. Louis Metro area and as my daily driver 88 Monte SS, 71 Lemans Sport, neither of which has airbags, anti-lock brakes or any modern so-called safety equipment. I drive courteously and safely and I feel more secure in either of these vehicles than my wife's '03 Z71. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

tonyt · #70 07-01-2004, 05:44 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 455HOGT37:
Some of you people are cutting your own throats if you truly love the Holden import. Only a handfull of you think the "GTO" is perfect, then a few more liked it just enough to buy it, and one or two will buy when the prices get slashed this summer... that pretty much wraps up the "demonstrated" market for the car. Do you think you can float this boat all alone? Face it guys, this car should have had wide appeal... calling it a niche car after it starts to slip in sales is a cop-out. Besides, Ferrari makes niche cars work, not Pontiac. Those of you who revel in the novelty of having such a "rare" car apparently don't understand that the stockholders likely arent as happy about that situation... and they are the ones in charge in the end.

Well, to state the obvious, the Monaro isnt reliant on whether you guys can see the wood for the trees or not. You dont want it, go back to your Nissans or 6 Cylinder Beemers. Me; I'll take my 5.7L 285KW Monaro any day of the week.