[PontiacLars]

Anyone tried Driven HR6 10W40?
Spec looks good.

[grivera]

I’m sure it’s fine oil

[Jay S]

:

Originally Posted by PontiacLars

Anyone tried Driven HR6 10W40?
Spec looks good.

It is a great choice but make sure you use good rubber gaskets, it has a higher detergents in it than VR1 for extends oil changes on the street, seems to test gaskets. It is the synthetic counterpart to HR5, both are highed in zddp than VR1. But VR1 doesn’t need as much zddp because it does not have as much detergents. I think HR6 and GP1 both take modern rubber seals to keep them dry. I have not tried HR6.

Yep…It’s Fine oil

[JB Eng Wis]

Jay S said it best:
Closest you could come with VR1 is to 50/50 mix the semi synthetic VR1 10w30 and 20w50 and end up with a 15w40 VR1. Which Valvoline reps says you can add any of their VR1 products with each other.
I say MIX it

[Dragncar]

Just by this, its better than mixed VR1.

https://www.schaefferoil.com/race-oil-15w40.html

People are actually getting 4-5 more horsepower with this stuff. And better MPG.
And 1,000,000 mile gasoline engines, AND 1,000,000 mile diesel engines that almost look new inside.
Plenty of vids of this stuff.

Its a racing semi synthetic that you can run on the street. Detergent pack, 7000 mile drain interval if you like. Extra zinc and all that too.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by Jay S

:

It is a great choice but make sure you use good rubber gaskets, it has a higher detergents in it than VR1 for extends oil changes on the street, seems to test gaskets. It is the synthetic counterpart to HR5, both are highed in zddp than VR1. But VR1 doesn’t need as much zddp because it does not have as much detergents. I think HR6 and GP1 both take modern rubber seals to keep them dry. I have not tried HR6.

Yep…It’s Fine oil

Thinking this morning. I should not have compared HR6 to the GP1. I think what makes the GP1 difficult to seal up is the high amount of Moly in it. IRC, GP1 has something like 1300, HR6 has no moly in it. GP1 is one of those oils that does well on the dyno, beating the competitive oils by decent margins, then you try running it and can’t keep it in the engine. LOL


When you see that an oil makes more power, like the Shaeffer racing oil that was mentioned. Those oils almost always have more moly and pretty consistently make more power.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Just by this, its better than mixed VR1.

https://www.schaefferoil.com/race-oil-15w40.html

People are actually getting 4-5 more horsepower with this stuff. And better MPG.
And 1,000,000 mile gasoline engines, AND 1,000,000 mile diesel engines that almost look new inside.
Plenty of vids of this stuff.

Its a racing semi synthetic that you can run on the street. Detergent pack, 7000 mile drain interval if you like. Extra zinc and all that too.

I looked at some oil samples taken from some different Schaefer oils. A few fleet and the racing version. They are impressive.

[JB Eng Wis]

Im questioning the 1300 ppm of Moly in GP1 oil..... the highest I have recorded is 433 in GP1
do you recall which oil might have that high of level of moly?
I do have Driven XP9 syn (10w-40)at my record high of 1460 ppm MOLY.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by JB Eng Wis

Im questioning the 1300 ppm of Moly in GP1 oil..... the highest I have recorded is 433 in GP1
do you recall which oil might have that high of level of moly?
I do have Driven XP9 syn (10w-40)at my record high of 1460 ppm MOLY.

Yes, thank you, you are correct. I had the moly number for the wrong oil. It is hard for me to keep track of all the names and differences of the 5 different Driven 10w40’s.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by PontiacLars

My engine is a 4.5" stroker with roller camshaft.

What lifters? solid roller or a hyd roller?

[glhs#116]

As a vastly general rule of thumb I was always advised to steer clear of oils with large ranges (e.g. the OP's 5W-50). The decode on that, of course is "acts like a 5 weight cold and acts like a 50 weight hot". In other words. it thins out as it heats up but much more slowly than a "straight" oil. Now what I've always been told is done chemically in order to get this behaviour is you start with a base stock that is essentially "the lower weight" (in other words, a 5 weight base stock) and then you add more an more "thickeners" to get the larger and larger spread (e.g. from 5W-20 to 5W-30 to 5W-40 to 5W-50...).

Now, the tradeoff -- as I understand it -- is that in an ideal world we'd love an oil with the highest spread as this would give the most consistent viscosity to the engine. However, in the real world those thickeners break down and the more of them there are the more the oil is changing over its lifetime. I've always understood that one of the best real-world compromises is basically a 5W30 or a 10W30.

Now, also in the real world all sorts of specific blends may have all sorts of specific strengths and weaknesses. For what it's worth I have stock clearances and run the modern Shell 5W-30 (it's synthetic) in the "AG" variety (all the modern oils come in like "Ford", "GM", "Mercedes" etc flavours and "AG" is the "GM" flavour).

Sam

[AG]

You say, "However, in the real world those thickeners break down and the more of them there are the more the oil is changing over its lifetime." Do you have any data to support this?

[glhs#116]

Originally Posted by AG

You say, "However, in the real world those thickeners break down and the more of them there are the more the oil is changing over its lifetime." Do you have any data to support this?

AG, you've shamed me into doing some research on top of what I've kind of vaguely gathered over the years as an "understanding". As Siri might say, "here's what I've found:"

Seems like the breakdown of thickeners I was recalling is a process of them usually being in the form of large molecules which are susceptible to mechanical shear and so tend to be broken down over time. I've read in some places that this is more of a "historic" problem. In other words, was truer in the early days of multigrade oils and viscosities are much more stable these days. By what mechanism they avoid this I'm not sure but apparently this should be a lot less true of modern oils.

Other aspects of oil "lifetime viscosity effects" that seem to remain true are that with heat and age the more volatile parts of the oil boil off. This has a thickening effect over time. Perhaps the modern stability that the oil companies have achieved involves balancing the thinning from shearing with the thickening from volatile component boil-off? I have no special knowledge here but I'd love to know.

More significantly, it still seems fairly well agreed that the long term trajectory of oils is towards worse and worse "cold" performance. In other words, even if the general room temperature viscosity remains "in spec" for much of the lifetime of the oil, its ability to act like a sufficiently "thin" oil in cold weather gets steadily worse.

Anyway, the acidification over time of oil and its danger to bearings was already enough stimulus for me to do at minimum yearly oil changes regardless of mileage. I guess this is a good reminder that oil remains a much debated topic because there's a lot of factors.

Sam

[AG]

My question was honest in the respect I wanted to see if you had actual data that supported your claim. The thixotropic agents added to oil to change viscosity as a function of temperature are polymers (haven't seen any MW data on them) that can or might have some shear sensitivity and break down into smaller molecules. This is mentioned by different sources but without any analysis that supports their assumption. It could just be assumptions or some hand waving.

[Jay S]

It seems Sam your comment might be more applicable to a conventional or synthetic blend oil???

Several of the OEM’s recommend a 5W20 oil for the standard engine platform, then when you get into some higher HP apps for the engine they recommend a thicker 5w50 oil. Ford’s Coyote call for a 5w50 on a couple of the higher HP versions, but 5w20 on the base engine. It seems like I recall it had something to do with piston cooling???

GM recommends a 15w50 on one of the corvette’s for competition use. That is a healthy jump from a 5w20.

It probably isn’t the greatest gauge though to pick a oil designed for newer applications for some of our older engines. Some people do it with decent success, like that Mobile synthetic 0w40 mentioned., and the 5w20 that has been running for years. Driven’s tech,Lake Speed JR recommends the 10w40 Driven HR5 and the synthetic HR6 for hyd roller engines to something like 400 to 900 HP. FWIR, The reason why the driven doesn’t drop to a 5w is because the bigger spring pressures some of the retro fit hyd roller engines run let the lifter completely collapse when they sit, and the 40 has better leak down hot, but each oil is different there.

I run both Penngrade1 and VR1 Valvoline, and I would say they own against the driven HR5 and HR6, but the down side is those oils need to be changed more often than Driven with it’s extra detergents.

[PontiacLars]

Originally Posted by Jay S

What lifters? solid roller or a hyd roller?

Johnson hydraulics.

[Tom Vaught]

The BP Oil Rep suggested I run 15W40 oil on my Flat Tappet Solid Lifter camshafts 20
years ago. NEVER had an Issue in that 20 years.

Tom V.

[The Champ]

Tom

IIRC, you still have a supply of that 15W40 that you bought 20 years ago.

But is that oil the same as the currently produced 15W40 diesel oil, or has oil technology changed in 20 years?

[Formulas]

Oil marketed for Diesel also suffered a reduction in additives just like Automotive oils just at a later date

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by PontiacLars

Johnson hydraulics.

There have not been reports of those lifters being very sensitive to oil viscosity. There have been some guys that have said sometimes thicker oil made more power on the dyno with some hydraulic rollers combos.

I attached Driven’s cheat sheet for their oils with different operating temps and oil clearance. Also a chart comparing viscosity in cSt versus temp (*F) between a 5w50 FR50 driven and 20w50 Valvoline VR1. The cSt is on the vertical. Driven FR50 is competition for Valvoline VR1 5w50, I would expect those two oils viscosity to be similar. Not far after about 150*F the 5w50 and 20w50 VR1 the viscosity looks similar.