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Old 03-19-2011, 06:56 PM
pontiacphil pontiacphil is offline
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Default New Wheels & Tires. Now Have Tire Rub!

Finally bit the bullet & got new wheels & tires for my 67' GTO. Ordered them from Summit because of their price & quick service. Got 15x7 Torq-Thrust Originals (3.75" backspace). Thought I'd be conservative & got the 225x60x15 BF Goodrich Radial TA's. They bolted on easily & really look good. Drove it today & was severely disappointed to hear a scrapeing/rubbing sound from the rear tires when I went over dips in the road & going in & out of a driveway. The rear fender well lip is rubbing the sidewall of the tire on those occassions. The metal wheel well lip is approx. an eighth inch too wide, creating the interference. My question is: what's the best solution to this problem? Should I attempt to remove that eighth of an inch of metal (about an 8" inch section along the center of the fender well lip)? If so, what's the best method to remove this metal? Die grinder, snips, file, etc.? I don't want to harm the paint on the fender any. If there's any other way to correct this rub problem please let me know. Any advice/suggestions you can provide will be appreciated. Thanx!

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Old 03-20-2011, 08:26 PM
x-bird2 x-bird2 is offline
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trimming without heating up the paint and causing it to lift off the metal next to the cut is going to be difficult. Maybe an air saw a little at a time or air nibblers, but i think no matter what you'll end up with some chips and gouges. snips are likely going to want to bend the metal and be difficult to work with around the whole opening. Surprised that wheel sizing is an issue, not familiar with A-body specs for backspace, did you change from stock a that point? That's not that wide of a tire setup.

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Old 03-20-2011, 08:58 PM
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I can't understand why the aftermarket offers wheels for our cars with so little backspacing.

Some 15X7s with 4-1/2" of backspacing would be ideal, pretty much what the factory 15X7 Rally IIs have.

The best solution would really be a better fitting set of wheels. I'd seriously consider replacing the wheels rather than cut, hammer or grind on the body of your '67 GTO.

I really did try to give you some good advice here: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=644986

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Old 03-20-2011, 09:08 PM
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Saw this on Jesse James....He took a baseball bat and held it against the tire while someone in the car rolled forward. It curved the lip back without stripping the paint and was smooth. I would not suggest starting with something that big, maybe a hardwood dowel and work your way up to whatever gives you results. DISCLAIMER I have never actually tried this, but I would if I needed to roll the lips on my car.

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Old 03-20-2011, 09:25 PM
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Another solution that will not require altering the body or replacing the wheels would be to install a narrower 1964 thru 1966-1/2 rear end, they are one inch narrower overall than a 1967 rear. That would buy you 1/2" of clearance on each side.

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Old 03-20-2011, 09:28 PM
pontiacphil pontiacphil is offline
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B-man you did offer some good advice but finding a set of Torq/Thrust 15x7's with a 4.5" BS was not found in my searching, unless you got deeper pockets than I do, to order custom built wheels. I've got a bit over a $1,000 in my new purchase so it's going to be something I'm going to have to learn to live with. Since my rubbing only occurs on a bounce/dip type situation, not on flat roads, I'm going to install two new rear shocks this coming weekend. Plan to get some HD Gas shocks as my old shocks are old, weak, & may be leaking. Maybe I'll be lucky & this will help alleviate the situation. My last resort will be to do some minor, careful, removal of a little metal on the inside edge of the lip. I really thought the 225/60 tire size wouldn't cause a problem but that shows how wrong one can be. My suspension is totally stock with no lowering, modifications, etc. Thanks to all the responses back offering suggestions & advice. I'll continue to post as I make efforts to rectify the matter.

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Old 03-21-2011, 07:31 AM
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Your choice of wheel has created the problem.

That decision has caused you to buy tires that are too short for your car (25.6" tall vs about 27" tall for the original tires. You didn't provide a photo of your car - but I would have to think you have a lot of clearance between the top of the tire and the wheelwell.

I seriously doubt that new shocks will solve your problem - unless they are airshocks - which I don't recommend. I don't like the idea of altering the body to make the current setup work.

If you want to stick with those rims - my suggestion would be to:

A. Do as b-man suggests and install a narrower rear end. An extra .5" per side would allow you to run a rear tire that would fill the rear wheelwell better.

B. Sell your 225/60/15's that are too short anyway (IMO) and buy narrower (but taller) 215/70/15's (26.9" tall, but .4" narrower section width).

C. Install a set of airbags in the rear springs to lift the rear end - but this would make your existing tires look even smaller.

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Old 03-21-2011, 09:39 AM
pontiacphil pontiacphil is offline
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Default TheChamp, A couple of questions.

Thanks for the info. & suggestions. My tire info. (Summit cataloge) shows that the factory sized tires I WAS running, on factory Rallye I rims, (215x70x14) were 25.9" tall & the new 225x60x15 are 25.6". So I've only decreased size downward by .3". Also, the 225x60's are 7.2" wide & the 215x70's you suggested are 7.0" wide. I don't know IF this .2" decrease in width (that would be .1" on each side of the tire) would be enough of a decrease in width to resolve my rubbing problem.
When you mention the possibility of acquiring a narrower style rearend, do you mean just the center "chunk" differential and not the axles, axle tubes, etc.? What is the availability of such a part and what would the approx. price be?
I guess my biggest frustration is that all the Sellers I contacted about this Torq-Thrust wheel, with the 3.75" BS, were adamant & confident that was THE wheel for my particular 67' GTO & it was designed specifically to replace the factory sized wheel without any problems. When I inquired about the narrower BS, over the factory 4.5", I was assured that the 3.75" was correct. WRONG. Summit won't consider swapping out my purchase since I've installed them & run them.
I need new rear shocks anyway, so maybe I'll luck out & the stiffer shock will prevent the bounce/jounce that's appears to be causing my rubbing problem. I'd be tempted to "bite the bullet" & replace the 2 rear tires with the 215x70's, like you mentioned, but I'm afraid the .2" just isn't enough to resolve my problem. Thanx again for your input.

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Old 03-21-2011, 10:08 AM
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Pontiac Phil.

Not sure if this is an option, but this might work. Plus you might find a place that will let you rent this. Even still 270$ is less than 1000$

http://www.eastwood.com/autobody/fen...struction.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqiTfYyaI1A


Even better 150$!!!
http://stores.toolzunlimited.com/Ite...LAID=487958514


HTH,
Dave

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Last edited by 1967Tempest; 03-21-2011 at 10:16 AM.
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Old 03-21-2011, 10:18 AM
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You would have to pay for shipping, but Summit should be willing to take the rims back. Then find something in your price range that you like with the correct backspacing.

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  #11  
Old 03-21-2011, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b-man View Post
I can't understand why the aftermarket offers wheels for our cars with so little backspacing.
Yeah, one size fits nothing.

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  #12  
Old 03-21-2011, 10:25 AM
pontiacphil pontiacphil is offline
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Default Reply back to 1967 Tempest.

I did a lot of research this past weekend about Eastwood's Fender Well Roller. Seems that people that have used it say it's best to use on a car BEFORE you paint it. If your paint is in good shape you need to use a heat gun liberally when using the "roller" as existing paint can crack, peel away from the metal, chip, etc. when the pressure from the roller is applied to the lip & quarter panel. I have zero experience/knowledge of body work & am intimidated by risking such an endeavor. My existing paint job is older but in pretty good shape. Wouldn't want to risk damaging it, plus the $270 for a one time use tool, isn't very attractive either. I live in a rural area & not many bodyshops around my place that would have such an animal on hand. Thanks for the suggestion.

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Old 03-21-2011, 10:37 AM
x-bird2 x-bird2 is offline
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Lose the thoughts that new shocks are going to help this situation. While they'll improve ride quality if your old ones are shot, they control compression and rebound rates and aren't going to limit the travel of the rear in the car unless you put a big pile of jounce bumpers on them or install air springs pumped to the max. I'd consider posting down in the F-body forum and see if a member close to you is willing to buy your new set up less mounting and balancing costs. While 225 is a bit narrow for what most firebird owners consider, there shouldn't be a fitment issue like your running into--might give you a quick sell so you can reinvest in something correct in a 70 series. What B-Man is suggesting is an entire rear setup, tubes and all and is your best shot at keeping what you have and solving the problem without trying to roll the lip.

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Old 03-21-2011, 12:01 PM
pontiacphil pontiacphil is offline
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Default Yeah, I'm Struggling Still.

Okay, I really like the looks of the Torq-Thrusts and I know the backspacing is killing me. Looking at BF Goodrich Tire Charts I see that their 225/70x15 is 6.7" wide in tread width compared to the 7.2" on my 225x60's. That .5" SHOULD eliminate my sidewall rubbing problem. However, that 225/70 has a height of 27.4" compared to a 25.6" on my 225/60's, nearly 2 inches taller. Do you think these 225/70's will fit the wheelwells of my 67' properly, or are they too tall? Could I continue to run the 60's on the front, try to sell the two 60's on the back & replace them with the 70's? How would the looks be on that combo.? If the taller 70's will fit okay all the way around, I could just replace the entire 4 tires with 225/70's. Wouldn't that resolve the rubbing problem? I'm just gunshy now & afraid the 27.4" taller height/diameter might not fit in my stock wheelwells without any interference. Finding a buyer for the 60's might be a problem in my rural area so I'll be "out" around $200 if I replace the rear 2, or $400 if I replace all 4. Suggestions/comments/advice? Thanks.

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Old 03-21-2011, 01:09 PM
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The original tires were 775x14 - which were about 27" tall. Your 215/70/14's were an inch shorter than stock. Radial tires didn't come on our cars back in the day - stock size was closer to a radial tire in a 215/75/14.

That's why I suggested the 215/70/15's - which are almost exactly the tire height that your car came from the factory with. The narrower section width will help your fitment problem. 225/70/15's have the same section width as your 225/60's - so you most likely would still be rubbing.

And don't look at the tread with when comparing sizes - look at section widith. The tread isn't rubbing - it's the sidewall. The section width is the sidewall measurement.

Getting closer to the original tire height will make your speedometer more accurate and will probably improve your real fuel mileage. Right now with the short tires - your odometer is reading more miles than you are driving.

I would not keep the 60's on the front. To me it would look funny with a wider, shorter tire on the front. That's my opinion. Usually when people mix profiles (60/70 series) the fronts get the narrower tires and the rears get the wider tires.

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Old 03-21-2011, 05:42 PM
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On my '67 LeMans, if I remember correctly, the stainless wheel well trim is actually wider than the fender lip itself. If this is the case on your car, you may be able to just cut down the trim, instead of part of the actual car body. If you have original trim that you don't want to cut, get some repo's and cut them.

These guys ( http://www.weldcraftwheels.com/ ) can widen the backside of your wheels. If you have them add 1.5 inches to the backside of your wheels, they would then be 8.5" wide with a 5.25" backspace and half inch of positive offset. You could then probably use a 245-60-15 or maybe even a 255-60-15 on the rear with no problem. This would cost about $175 per wheel.

This guy ( www.motorsport-tech.com ) may be able to shave a quarter inch or so off off the mounting surface of your back wheels, which would bring the backspace to 4 inches. He quoted me $75.00 apiece about a year ago to do mine, but I never had it done. I don't know whether it is actually safe to do or not.


Last edited by chipster; 03-21-2011 at 05:54 PM.
  #17  
Old 03-22-2011, 01:51 PM
ERIC AULL ERIC AULL is offline
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Go to a good body shop and have the wheel wells rolled...

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Old 03-22-2011, 02:43 PM
pontiacphil pontiacphil is offline
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When you live in a very rural area, as I do, you often don't have the options like big city dwellers do. There are only a handful of body shops within 50 miles of my home & none of them have a "fender well lip roller". The ones I contacted still use the old baseball bat method & they can't guarantee that my existing paint won't be damaged or cracked. I'm just trying to avoid creating a bigger problem than I already have. I wish I did have the options that those of you have when you live in a large, metropolitan area.
Someone asked if my fender well guard/strip extended beyond the fender well lip itself, and it does not. The brushed aluminum strip is about a quarter inch narrower than the metal lip itself.
I called Summit & spent an hour with their Tech. Dept. They told me that American Racing does NOT make a Torq-Thrust wheel with a backspace of more than 3.75" and they can't/won't build a custom wheel, in this particular model/style, for them, with an increased backspace, regardless of price. Summit's only suggestion was for me to replace the rear 2 tires with a 215x70x15 tire as it will have a sectional width of 8.7" compared to my existing 9.0". I'm just not certain of that .3" is enough to eliminate my rubbing. It'll be close but I hate to go to the expense & trouble of dismounting/mounting tires & it not eliminate the problem. Plus, I hate to have a shorter, wider tire on the front and a taller,narrower tire on the rear. Just won't look right in my opinion. So, I'm still in a quandry as to what to do. The HD gas shocks arrived today & I will install them this weekend. Probably won't help my problem any but I need new rear shocks anyway. I'll post results of any improvement. Thanks again.

  #19  
Old 03-22-2011, 04:07 PM
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IMO due to your particular situation your best option is to just start over. Pull the tire and wheel combo and sell the them on Craigslist/ebay/PYclassifieds/etc. (Yes, you will most likely take a loss on them). There are a lot of TT style wheels out there and I'm sure that you can find something that will work. I did a quick Google search for TT Original and found this...

http://www.wheelsforless.com/SearchR...ds=VNCL2055700 ...

you can get 4" or 4.25" BS for this wheel. More expensive than the Summit TT wheels, but you can get the size and correct BS that you need. You'll probably end up a few hundred dollars in the hole from what you originally planned on expense-wise after all is said and done, but I think that's better than rolling/cutting the fender well lips. My

Scott

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  #20  
Old 03-22-2011, 10:22 PM
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Phil,

You can likely find an early narrower 10-bolt rear end for pretty cheap, I've had a few of these early Pontiac A-body rear ends literally given to me by folks who just wanted to get rid of them. A few hours of your time, a floor jack, a pair of good jackstands and some simple hand tools will get the job done.

That way you can keep your wheels and tires and get some use out of them. You can later on go to a bigger rear tire like a 235/60-15 if you like after the 225/60s wear out.

It may sound like a lot of work and expense to swap in a new rear axle assembly but it really isn't. Doing this saves you from having to use a roller or take the baseball bat to your rear wheelwells (don't even think about it).

Changing to 70-series tires won't work. The added sidewall height of the 70-series tires will just make matters worse, taller tires will always bulge out more at the sidewall.

Once I tried swapping my 28X10" slicks mounted on 8.5" wide Centerline wheels for taller and narrower 29.5X9" slicks. The sidewalls on the 9" slicks bulged out so far at the sidewalls that I couldn't even get them on the car, the 10" slicks were already a very tight fit.

Good luck, Bart

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