This is the impact Bob Lutz is having on GM

[Nickv]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SuperQuad:
Posted by Nickv:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Just wait until you see what's up at Pontiac for 2007-8. I have some info, but I cannot share right now. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dammit boy, I says, I says - spill it, son! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't say, not right now. But trust me, everyone will be surprised.

[Nickv]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Until just 2 yrs ago the highest car sales for Chevy was the deplorably inferior Cavalier........ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think this say's more about American car buyers rather what it says about GM as a car builder don't you think Glenn?

[Mr_GTO]

I have a good idea. Last time you saw one was 1971.

[svede1212]

i'm beginning to see where goathead gets his point of view about the '04. there must not have been much he liked about his '65 either. it's a GTO in sheet metal name only. it's even got a ford rear end.

[HUMBLER]

18K total vs 18K / year? I thought it was 18K per year expected production?

Goathead has Goatenvy,

I was pleasantly surprised at my club's all Pontiac show last Sunday that one of our old schoolers couldn't get enough of a mildly modified 04 that was sitting in the showroom of the host Pontiac dealer. He was even snapping pics, pretty cool. He's made many comments about the styling to the negative but with wheels alone (it's amazing what a set of 18's do) you see the real potential this car has. Very much looking forward to future offerings...

The dealer's greed is the reason for the poor sales. But I've already said that many times...

[Nickv]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
_They recall the GTO, but not the judge? _

Hey, selective hearing man, ck out my statement one more time. Now, video if you must, but you will loose this one big time.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
But Bob Lutz, vice chairman-product development for General Motors Corp., says while an even higher-performance version of the new GTO may be added, it is unlikely to carry the Judge moniker.

"There's some positives and some negatives with that name," he says. "The Judge name also might raise collector expectations," Lutz says of enthusiasts critical that the '04 isn't a retro rendition of the original GTO. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[67ConvFB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nickv:
Ford has nothing except, what a Mustang and GT that no one can afford? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
2004 GTO MSRP $31795
2004 Mustang GT MSRP $24300

[Nickv]

As of today SLP owns the trademarks to "Here Comes Da Judge" for accessories plus automobiles. GM owns the trademark "The Judge", but for Parts, restoration parts, and accessories for motor land vehicles.

Pontiac wil most likely NOT release a Judge model. From a marketing standpoint it makes no sense to associate the new GTO with the Judge. Only GTO enthusiasts would get it. If your marketing stategy is to pull in upscale car owners, ie BMW, Audi, Saab owners, the JUDGE name will not mean a damn thing to them. And actually is kind of silly from Pontiac's point of view. Whether some like it or not the new GTO is Pontiac's halo car and to associate it with a 60's sitcom just doesn't make sense from a sales and marketing standpoint.

With that being said though... A hipo version of the GTO is in the works.

go to this site http://herecomedajudge.com where does it take you?

[Goathead]

None of these arguments or statements would be necessary if the present clone was successful, but it is not. Even old Easy Rider could not help it's drooping sales.

All this wait until 2007 crap will not get it either. There are a lot of other cars saying wait till 2007 too...apples to apples...

Face it Nick, this car is a total bomb....and Lutz is the man, and this is his influence, that is correct...

[Bunz53]

OK Jackasses. (applies to those who know). Please tell me what car in the market TODAY can compare to the GTO, MONARO or whatever you want to call it. The G35? The 350Z? The RX-8? The Cobra? The M3?
G35: too small, too slow, and too expensive.
350Z: too small, too slow, and too expensive.
RX-8: too small, too slow, and too expensive.

I saw all of these vehicles when I hadn't made the decision to get the Pontiac. I also drove them.
Any of these cars would kill a big heavy V-8 on a track. No freakin' crap. If I wanted a super fast car on the track and on the road, I would have gotten a Subaru WRX STi. The numbers that this car can post are outstanding. But I am an adult. I am a man, and that is a boys car.
The Cobra is cool, but the current one is an engine and not much else. If you want only that, then knock yourself out.
I am willing to spend money to make myself happy Every time I drive the car. Not just at a stop light. And we're only talking about 5 tenths of a second. If you are guys who can feel this difference, then get the Cobra. My ass really can't feel the difference.
The M3, however is an outstanding car. The GTO cannot compare with this car until you bring in the price. The GTO is within a C!@#'s hair of the M3 on almost everything, yet it's about $20,000 cheaper.
If I had $ to crap out my ass, I'd but a Ferrari Enzo.
If I was strapped for cash and wanted something with power, I'd get the Subaru.
I happen to be in the middle, and no car you can come up with is even close.
See you on the road.

[Nickv]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 67ConvFB:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nickv:
Ford has nothing except, what a Mustang and GT that no one can afford? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
2004 GTO MSRP $31795
2004 Mustang GT MSRP $24300
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GT as in Ford GT, you know the retro car from the 60's that cost's 150K. What else does Ford have have to offer the car enthusiast?

let me see here.,

Focus
Mustang
Taurus
Crown Vicky
Thunderbird
Ford Freestar minivan
Ford GT

Very exciting line indeed.

And who said I was comparing the GTO to a Mustang? Take a long hard look at Ford's lineup for the next 3 years. Now go take a look at GM's lineup. Go on.

[Nickv]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
None of these arguments or statements would be necessary if the present clone was successful, but it is not. Even old Easy Rider could not help it's drooping sales.

All this wait until 2007 crap will not get it either. There are a lot of other cars saying wait till 2007 too...apples to apples...

Face it Nick, this car is a total bomb....and Lutz is the man, and this _is_ his influence, that is correct... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe, maybe not. I hold my final judgement on whether the new GTO is a bomb after the 05 goes up for sale, which from every indication will sell quite a few more than the 04's. But in the end I have mine and I'm happy with it.

[70455RA]

Ford has a few vehicles coming out too. A 06 Cobra which will be over 400 hp.A Cobra R is coming out which is expected to be around 480 hp. A 06 lightning is coming out which is expected to be around the prototype of 500 hp.What do you mean Ford doesn't have anything exciting coming out? And the GT is such a great looking car.I haven't had anybody get out of my Cobra who isn't impressed. Svt is also planning some high perf. lincolns for some unknown reason like caddy is.I don't think we'll see many Lincs or Caddys at the racetrack. I still don't get the big deal about the 350Z.Ugly as far as I'm concerned.Gm did a excellent job on the new vette.400 hp and 3100 lbs sounds like a blast.I can't wait to drive the inlaws when his comes in. And he hasn't offered to run my cobra w/his C5 either. All he said when he got out was I didn't know they made anything to run like this.Who thought we would ever see cars with 300 hp, now they're getting close to 500.

[glenn bayard]

GM has lost more market share, US and internationally than any other car company has in history. They continue to loose market share steadily...............Toyota, Nissan, and DC will overtake them within 13 years at the current rate. Furthermore, if you take out truck/SUV sales, their car sales did even WORSE!! Then, factor in that GM 'sales' more to fleet sales ie gives their junk away, on a percentage basis and you have a very very sad looking company. The ultimate insult was very recently when the South Korean car companies Hundai, Kia, etc entered the US with some respectable vehicles in the past 2 years and advertise against Toyota, Honda, etc, NOT EVER a GM car division, because of the 'negative impression' one has of the corporation. Until just 2 yrs ago the highest car sales for Chevy was the deplorably inferior Cavalier........do you think for a moment any respectable Japanese, German, etc car company would even allow that..............speaks volumes about the pathetic state of Pontiac and GM in general. Lastly, car building is not rocket science, GM has been doing it for about 100years now.........do you think by now they would have gotten it straight??? PS I had all American cars until about 10 yrs ago, when I gave up, and have since expereinced many of the new cars from GM through relatives and close friends, the conclusion...........they still don't get it. <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nickv:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Jones:
All this is great talk. GM needs a car with some resale value that Joe Everyman actually wants. SSR. 40k 50k 60k Caddy. A "New" Judge. Since GM is buying V-6's for Saturn from Honda maybe they could rebadge a few Accords as Chevy's. GM is wasting their efforts on vehicles they will only sell a few of. They need a GOOD car people can afford. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Seems like you know nothing about the GM. Here let me list some sales figures for you.

March / Year-to-date 2004

1. Chevy - 83, 250 / 213,939
2. Toyota - 77,740 / 206,925
3. Ford - 74,631 / 179,621
4. Honda - 58,793 / 158,398

Total Chevy
March 83,250 Year-to-date 213,939

Month YTD
Aveo
3,477 7,883
Camaro
10 19
Cavalier
17,128 50,061
Classic
10,120 29,012
Corvette
3,033 8,401
Impala
30,175 72,624
Malibu
12,997 28,989
Monte Carlo
5,223 13,880
Prizm
0 1
SSR
1,087 3,069


GM Car Sales

GM's car sales increased by 9 percent in March compared to last year. Deliveries of GM mid-size cars were up 18 percent (104,726). Pontiac Grand Prix had 14,607 deliveries, an 87 percent increase, and Grand Am sales (14,434) were up 30 percent. Chevrolet Impala had 30,175 deliveries, a 37 percent improvement over last year's sales performance. GM's key launch vehicles showed increasing sales momentum including the Chevrolet Malibu (12,997), which had a 36 percent improvement over last month, and Aveo (3,477) with a 13 percent increase. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Nickv]

Along with the 400HP CTSV, they are comming out with the new STSV, with a supercharged Northstar hiting the 430HP mark. An interesting tidbit though, it comes with a spoiler delete option, deleted its governed to 130 mph, but with the spoiler is governed to 155mph. Appearntly the guy in charge hates the spoiler and didn't want it, but the car was having to much lift in the rear and had issues with the higher speeds.

Also the escalade will get a v10-v12, and the XLR will probably get a v10-v12. There was also talk of the STS getting a v10-v2 down the road.

Just wait until you see what's up at Pontiac for 2007-8. I have some info, but I cannot share right now.

[TTS]

NickV.- Fair enough. But must say the M3 is way over the top, price wise (wrong class also). I have tried to buy the GTO. I tried, I tried to get my wife to, and I tried to again. The car is nice, but well overshadowed. The CTSV looked better @ 20K more $. I want to like the car, don't get me wrong! I just cannot spend the money on it.

[phendee]

Pontiac plans on building a Maximum of 18000
GTO's per year for years 04, 05, and 06. It does
not appear they will make that number this year which makes my 04 that much more rare. Some
people don't get it. Pontiac is offering this car as gravy. It's not a hallmark car that they ever need to sell a crap load. Thank God. It's something else they offer to a niche of enthusiasts. If you want one fine, If you don't your not hurting Pontiac.

[Nickv]

Glenn, why don't you tell GM directly about your concerns. Have you written GM a letter?

I want to know what Glenn's perfect GM car is? Please tell me, I really do want to know what this is.

[TTS]

And Nick, we drove them too.

[67ConvFB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nickv:
As of today SLP owns the trademarks to "Here Comes Da Judge" for accessories plus automobiles. GM owns the trademark "The Judge", but for Parts, restoration parts, and accessories for motor land vehicles.

Pontiac wil most likely NOT release a Judge model. From a marketing standpoint it makes no sense to associate the new GTO with the Judge. Only GTO enthusiasts would get it. If your marketing stategy is to pull in upscale car owners, ie BMW, Audi, Saab owners, the JUDGE name will not mean a damn thing to them. And actually is kind of silly from Pontiac's point of view. Whether some like it or not the new GTO is Pontiac's halo car and to associate it with a 60's sitcom just doesn't make sense from a sales and marketing standpoint.

With that being said though... A hipo version of the GTO is in the works.

go to this site http://herecomedajudge.com where does it take you? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And you say I seem to know what' s going on in the automotive world.