[Held for Ransom]

Originally Posted by 70Steve

396?.......454. Lol.

No Sh!t. LOL.

[70Steve]

Steved400,

sorry how that came across, wasn't trying to correct you at all, just was quoting a line from the movie in jest. I actually made that post on my phone, it took me long enough just to type that in. Now when I read it I can indeed see how it seems to be a smart@$$ comment...definately not how it was intended.

I read somewhere in an interview with the builder of the 55, that right after he built it they ran it down the qtr and it turned either a 10.60, or 10.90 (i can't remember).

Even after the muffed start at the drags in the movie, the commentater says "The lil' 55 will run well into the 12's" Fact or fiction? Don't know, but in regards to the movie scene of the 55 and 70 running each other, I like to tell people that the stock 70 did pretty well against the stripped 55, espsecially considering the carb was playing up!

Just saw your post HFR...I left that bit out on purpose!!LOL.

[Steve Hoog]

Well I took it as why would you want a 396 when you could run a 454; which is very true. I think that myself; in terms of building something to run.

But I still say I wouldn't believe one single thing claimed by the studio or in the movie dialog. Everyone was wrong as can be about the GTO for decades; and see how that all turns around when the guy that owned it for a bit sent me the documents on it.

[MikeNoun]

I was really referring to the fact that the '55 Chevy was a true 11-second (or high 10-second) street racer, with a 454, tunnel ram, dual quads, a steep gear, and the car was gutted, probably weighed 3200 lbs.

The 70 GTO in the film was supposed to be a brand new car, and though Warren Oates describes it incorrectly (Mark IV, 455, etc), it was actually just a new 70 Judge RAIV, which was a mid to high 13-second car on a good day....with a tailwind.

In a side-by-side, the ol '55 would have taken the GTO by 15 lengths, going away. So that's all I was saying, they should have had Warren Oates do EXACTLY what he did in the film, where he nearly crapped his pants when Taylor opens the '55 up, but they should have shown the Judge quickly fading into the background, fading faster than this movie did at the box office.

Now perhaps this scene was intentional. Oates starts yelling at Dennis Wilson (in Oates's GTO) to "catch up", then after they back off, he angrily looks over at Taylor and says, "What are you trying to do, blow my mind?" Now that was either a comment about how scared he was, and Oates realized how Taylor toyed with the GTO, and he backed off enough to keep the Chevy's nose in front of the Judge, making Oates look like a jackass for yelling at Dennis Wilson to "catch up", I'm not sure.

That could very well be what the director was trying to say. Taylor was "The Driver", and was experienced in dragging his opponents down the track, leading just enough to rope in another victim for more money.

[Steve Hoog]

Mike, why do you think it is a 454? Knowing that that size motor had only just come out that year in production cars.

I don't know that it's not a 454; but the odds are more that it's a 396 or 427.

I still say the GTO will take it from mid range until the tach redlines. Depending on the gears in the 55; the 55 may actually fall off well before the GTO. The GTO would potentially make it to 125MPH on it's last breath but pull hard all the way.

In my experience I would only say the 55 would destroy the GTO off the line and the GTO might be hard pressed to catch it; but from a roll I say the GTO would be the victor.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Sounds like enough support for a sequel .....

[MikeNoun]

Well, I think it's because James Taylor says it's a 454 in the movie. The movie was made in 1971, so the 454 was indeed out for a year at that time. Being that Taylor and Wilson are street racers (and good ones at that), they would always understate their cubic inches to anyone asking questions in hope of roping some unsuspecting newbie into racing them for money.

Lots of info on the '55 here. http://kathyschrock.net/graffiti/55.htm

"Ruth patterned the cars after his own big-block '55 Chevy street racer after Two-Lane Blacktop/American Graffiti/Star Wars producer Gary Kurtz went street racing with Ruth while preparing for Two-Lane Blacktop. After that evening, Kurtz ordered two cars just like Ruth's '55 and a third '55 to be used as a stunt car. While Ruth was building the '55s, the studio arranged for General Motors to deliver three big block crate motors to his shop. One of the '55s received a leftover 1969 L-88 427 Chevy big block while the other two were equipped with the new 454s. Ruth installed a Weiand tunnel ram with dual Holleys on the two main cars, and a single four barrel on the stunt car. The stunt car had a full rollcage and was equipped with a Ruth-designed right and left braking system so it could be intentionally thrown into a skid and rolled over for a scheduled rollover scene. Ruth delivered all three cars to the studio painted powder blue, but the studio had them finished with a gray primer appearance to fit the persona of the drag racers played by James Taylor and Dennis Wilson."

Again, I'm not downing the GTO in the movie, but in reality, if the '55 was truly that fast, the scene where the '55 raced the GTO was inaccurate. An 11-second car racing a 13-second car is like a new 2012 Mustang 5.0 running a Honda Odyssey van. It would have walked away, and then some. But perhaps it was intentional, as I mentioned earlier, to screw with Warren Oates's mind. The '55 scared him at first, then perhaps Taylor leads the GTO like a carrot in front of a rabbit, to humiliate Oates. Maybe that was why Oates states, "What are you trying to do, blow my mind?"

[Steve Hoog]

Nice research Mike!

As I mentioned either could be built to beat either; and with what you found it sure sounds like the deck was loaded in the 55's favor.

But give the IV it's dues on the top end; I still think the GTO would rule in the triple digit area until it redlined. Maybe Bruno would have something to say here

[MikeNoun]

Oh heck yeah! In fact, they even mentioned that in the movie when another car passes the '55. Dennis Wilson says they'd take him (that car) in a short run, but not on the top end. The '55 had a steep 4-series gear behind it, top end was probably around 120 mph.

I would love to have a studio do a retro movie today, perhaps using Woodward Ave. as a backdrop. If they could do a true period piece, with authentic cars, they could create a great script that would be interesting, and would show young people what it was like back in the days when street racing was more than just dodging in and out of cars, yakking on the cell phone, and shooting at each other with Glock 9mm's like they do now.

I mean, "Fast And Furious" worked, and appealed to young kids that drive imports. They really need to do a similar movie (but without all the crazy stunts) about the 60's street scene. There are enough guys out there that would volunteer their cars to be used, whether as a main vehicle, or one of the hundreds that would be driving up and down Woodward, from 4-door Impalas to old 61 Buicks, with GSX's and 66 Corvettes riding on 5-slot aluminum rims, and the occasional big hitters, the serious street racers that dropped money on races.

[Steve Hoog]

A shame the chic flicks rule over the old hot rod films!

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by steved400

A shame the chic flicks rule over the old hot rod films!

Does that mean Fried Green Tomatoes isn't your favorite movie anymore?

[71GP76TA]

TLB is way better than alot of the over dramatized crap they have out now...... but I guess the females eat that crap up...

[north]

I think that:
Muscle cars + movie = crap
is a formula that is damn near 100% reliable. Car guys and Movie people just never seem to work well together. ;-)

[mechanic17]

Mike, I think "dragging him down the track" is spot-on. In fact, during the entire "race" to Washington, they rarely let GTO out of their sight, even rebuilding his carb for him if I recall! They like him for some reason: he's the equivalent of his car, a lot of flash and bravado, but he could "be a real street sweeper if he put some work into it."

He's redeemable, as he shows later. The implied comparison of people to machines is an occasional motif. The mechanic warns the driver "we can't be drinking a lot of Cokes and stuff, it'll slow us down." (quoting from memory--my girlfriend caught that one!) GTO says he's gonna "go into orbit" if he doesn't change something soon.

So Wilson and Taylor have found a man to build, having built the ultimate street machine, and perfected the ultimate continuous scam. Well, 3 men really. There's no competition left, and they're moving beyond the toys and money to the next phase of their lives. As Pirsig famously said in Zen, "the motorcycle you're working on is yourself."

[Steve Barcak]

Was just referred to this thread from the 70-2 GTO section. Interesting comments on the movie. I also very much like the first few minutes of the movie. After that, there are high and low point for sure.

The best way to watch it is to have your own edited version! Just cut out the bad parts, most of it, that you do not like.

That way, you get to see the good parts, like the drive in/street race in New Mexico, and leave out the bad parts. You can get the good parts down to 10-15 minutes give or take. Then, no one is bored watching the whole thing.
Just a thougth.

[flyingn]

It did not have "judge' words decals.. It did have the Judge grills though.. Weird car. Looks to me like a GTO painted Orbit, judge stickers partially added and grills painted.. Had add on ac too..

http://pics.imcdb.org/4691/TwoLane23.jpg

Here is the supposed PHC info on the movie car.. Hmm, RA IV/auto/3.90 car,, I stand corrected

http://www.empgmc.com/race/70oa.jpg

http://www.empgmc.com/race/70obs.jpg

[johnta1]

I was about to post those pics, when I saw your correction.



That's a nice Judge.

[Steve Hoog]

That is not suppossed, it is dead on the car. The only thing in question at this point is the secondary camera mount Pontiac. I think we have one official picture of it somewhere; but no details to what it really is/was. Memory serves me correct it was a B/W rear shot.

[Steve Hoog]

Took me a minute but here is the thread with the pic, been a while since I had seen it.

Another good thread on the car by the way.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...=556252&page=5

[Keith Seymore]

"Columbo" -

This is Season 2, Episode 3: "The Most Crucial Game".

Private investigator Ralph Dobbs (played by Val Avery) is seeking out Columbo so the LT can give him his license back (which he absentmindedly forgot to do).

K