View Poll Results: 9786819 pulley finish?
Black paint (over cad plating) 2 18.18%
Cad plating (without paint) 4 36.36%
Gold cad (without paint) 0 0%
Other 5 45.45%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-26-2019, 11:38 PM
PurelyGTO68 PurelyGTO68 is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 792
Default 1968 fan pulley finish?

Looking for input regarding the finish for a 2 groove fan (water pump) pulley. 9786819
My pulley is cadmium plated and then possibly painted black over the plating. I have seen about a dozen others done the same way (paint over plating).

I have seen exactly one pulley that was cadmium plated with no paint. That example was NOS so maybe not exactly correct.

I have seen Jim Mino's Firebird deuce and Jim Mattison's GTO deuce with that pulley plated golden cad.

What have you guys seen on original cars? Black paint, silver cad or gold cad?

  #2  
Old 02-27-2019, 04:21 AM
dataway's Avatar
dataway dataway is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Saratoga NY
Posts: 8,921
Default

Actually I don't think I've ever seen an OEM water pump pulley that was anything but black painted steel. Alternator yes, but not water pump.

  #3  
Old 02-27-2019, 02:04 PM
68gtoMN's Avatar
68gtoMN 68gtoMN is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Minneapolis Area
Posts: 2,261
Default

I also have not see a cad plated water pump pulley. I've been looking at this stuff for 40 years without seeing other than black paint. But...this does not mean it was not done...I just can't prove it.

Why would one plate a pulley then paint over it. Paint will not stick to that surface as well as bare metal. Makes little sense to me.

__________________
'68 GTO 4-spd Hardtop (11)
'68 GTO Convertible AT (1)
'70 LeMans Sport

Land of Lakes Muscle Car Classic
Facebook Event
Facebook Wall (Kurt Smith,Minneapolis)
  #4  
Old 02-27-2019, 02:46 PM
Brewster's Avatar
Brewster Brewster is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North Woods of Wisconsin
Posts: 4,809
Default

From what I have seen black paint is correct it is also correct for f-bodies.

  #5  
Old 02-27-2019, 07:03 PM
PurelyGTO68 PurelyGTO68 is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 792
Default

Thanks for the input guys.....keep the comments coming.

My pulley had surface rust on all unprotected surfaces but the plating was preserved on the inner and outer surface where it was in contact with the water pump hub and the fan spacer. I can't tell of it was ever painted but I didnt find any trace of black paint.

I have a couple other pulleys that have plating under the black paint. Either silver cad or bright zinc....not sure how to tell the difference between the two but the plating is shiny.

Never seen a gold cad or dichromate zinc pulley except on some restored cars. Here is a photo of Jim's Deuce Bird.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	First Deuce Bird.jpg
Views:	353
Size:	87.6 KB
ID:	506772  

  #6  
Old 02-27-2019, 07:33 PM
PurelyGTO68 PurelyGTO68 is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 792
Default

I found another photo with the gold pulley. This is described as an unrestored example car. I have looked at this photo a dozen times....never noticed the gold pulley until just now...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	03.jpg
Views:	318
Size:	83.1 KB
ID:	506777  

  #7  
Old 02-27-2019, 08:26 PM
'ol Pinion head 'ol Pinion head is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: INJUN Territory, Red State Merica!
Posts: 9,564
Default

Most 9778808 wp pulleys I've pulled originally had a silver cad finish. These were installed on '66 models. The cad plating fades out with time to gray, the finish can even look like a very washed out (faded) black painted pulley. By examining where the fan spacer bolted up, one can see a circle that is still silver cad finish.

The pulley in question... "819" wp pulleys. Every original I've pulled was black painted. Have easily had three-four dozen "819"s, still have several nice used in the pallet section, never had any hint of a gold gad type finish.
In cleaning out dealership stocks, have had a bunch of NOS "819" wp pulleys that were silver cad plated. Have an NOS "819" currently in the pulley stacks which still has a wired on manilla tag from GM Parts Distribution. To install it on anything close to a Concours restored car, I would glass bead & refinish @ 90% gloss black.

Other silver cad factory finish WP pulleys:
In the late 90's hauled in a '63 Tripower GP. It's original wp pulley was silver cad finish. Original timing cover, PS, & pulleys. Have ran across this same part number wp pulley when boneyarding, often pulling it & setting it aside when pulling original water pump cores.

For '67 & '68 models, factory V8 AC cars typ received the "886" WP pulley. Have had several NOS, & ALL were a gloss black. Eventually that gloss black dulls. Have pulled & sold dozens of "886" wp pulleys, as well as matching crank pulleys, all were black, no hint of silver cad underneath the black.

In manual strg stock, have a complete '68 V8 manual steering pulley bracket & pulley set, bought in another dealership parts buyout. Both pulleys look NOS except for slight imprint where the fan spacer was bolted on. At the time of the buyout, I thought the manual strg set interesting. The prev dealership principal then relayed to me, that occasionally, he would get a brand new manual steering late '60's A-body in a dealership trade. On a few occasions, he had one of his mechanics swap on factory PS in order to make a sale. Those '68 manual pulleys are gloss black. Have numerous NOS '70, 70 F-body, & '71 up WP & crank pulleys & all are a gloss black, just like the area under the reinforcement ring on '68+ crank pulleys.

__________________
Buzzards gotta eat... same as worms.

Last edited by 'ol Pinion head; 02-27-2019 at 09:09 PM.
  #8  
Old 02-27-2019, 11:31 PM
PurelyGTO68 PurelyGTO68 is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 792
Default

Thanks for the info OPH...
Any thoughts on the two example photos posted above? One restored car, the other is supposed to be an unrestored original example.

The Following User Says Thank You to PurelyGTO68 For This Useful Post:
  #9  
Old 03-31-2020, 06:15 PM
RA1John RA1John is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 794
Default

Interesting thread.... and good feedback as always from OPH (thx!).

Below are a few pix regarding the water pump pulley color/finish discussion. I have mostly only seen the black ones but have on occasion come across a silver cad one.

Note the silver pulley on this wrecked '68 GTO (HO or RA?). From a vintage Frame Repair book/article...



This one is a '68 Firebird 350. Original/unrestored. Silver cad pulley...





Here's a PMD promo pix of a '67 Firebird with silver pulley...



I also have a lot of pix of survivor cars with black pulleys. Standard steering, PS, with and w/o A.C.

Possible explanations for different finishes:
- Different finish to distinguish between other part #'s? (there were 3 different in '68)?
- Mid-year change? Early build used silver cad, later builds used black?
- Supplier source difference? Plant usage difference? (water pump pulley was installed at vehicle plant, not engine plant)

Other than Jim Mino's '68 RAII Bird, I've never come across any gold dichromate W/P pulleys.

One of those mysteries.

__________________
John
'68 Firebird Ram Air 4-spd Conv.
John 14:6
Semper Fi
  #10  
Old 04-01-2020, 06:40 AM
68ragtop's Avatar
68ragtop 68ragtop is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin
Posts: 4,323
Default

Wasn't there some talk a while ago about the R/A pulley's being different & possibly these are the ones that are non painted? I forgot if the R/A pulley were designed to speed up, or slow down some driven accessories? Any relationship to the finish question of the WP pulley?

I am having déjà vu for some reason.

__________________

68 GTO 4-spd Convertible
78 S/E Trans am L78, WS6 Auto
78 S/E Trans am W72, WS6 Auto
79 10th aniv W72 Trans am
80 Indy pace car Trans am
89 Trans am GTA
  #11  
Old 04-01-2020, 07:42 AM
J GLASGO's Avatar
J GLASGO J GLASGO is online now
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,021
Default

I know for a fact 66-67 ps cars had plated pulley. Manual steering painted. Here's a 30000 mile 66 we are working on.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	0515191744a.jpg
Views:	232
Size:	85.5 KB
ID:	535943  

__________________
WWW.GLASGOPERFORMANCE.COM. Updated... Sort of!
  #12  
Old 04-01-2020, 08:25 AM
RA1John RA1John is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 794
Default

There were 3 different part numbers in '68 for the waterpump pulley. None were specific to Ram Air.

__________________
John
'68 Firebird Ram Air 4-spd Conv.
John 14:6
Semper Fi
  #13  
Old 04-01-2020, 08:31 AM
J GLASGO's Avatar
J GLASGO J GLASGO is online now
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,021
Default

Only RA engine that had specific pulleys were RA5.

__________________
WWW.GLASGOPERFORMANCE.COM. Updated... Sort of!
  #14  
Old 04-01-2020, 01:14 PM
OG68's Avatar
OG68 OG68 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Chula Vista, CA
Posts: 1,475
Default

Some RAs may have had HD cooling thus A/C pulleys. But that would be on any car with the option.

__________________
Ed

1968 GTO (Thanks Mom)
2006 Silverado
2007 Cadillac SRX
2015 Chevy Express

  #15  
Old 04-02-2020, 01:22 PM
north's Avatar
north north is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,388
Default

interesting, every time I think I know the black and white answer to something I find some gray!

__________________
My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #16  
Old 04-02-2020, 11:23 PM
68pongto's Avatar
68pongto 68pongto is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 651
Default

I have had several 9786819 XF pulleys and they were all silver cad. I have replated 3 of them in zink and left one all original for reference. The other two types (w-A/C and manual steer) pulleys I have seen have been painted black.

Click image for larger version

Name:	20200402_215853.jpg
Views:	311
Size:	69.1 KB
ID:	536193Click image for larger version

Name:	20200402_215823.jpg
Views:	318
Size:	63.6 KB
ID:	536194Click image for larger version

Name:	20200402_215803.jpg
Views:	314
Size:	58.3 KB
ID:	536195

  #17  
Old 04-02-2020, 11:29 PM
68pongto's Avatar
68pongto 68pongto is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 651
Default

Here is a super original 68 350 HO car that is a customer of ours, also no paint.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0188.jpg
Views:	168
Size:	33.4 KB
ID:	536197Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0195.jpg
Views:	177
Size:	53.2 KB
ID:	536198Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0196.jpg
Views:	134
Size:	46.9 KB
ID:	536199

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0197.jpg
Views:	137
Size:	39.2 KB
ID:	536200Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0198.jpg
Views:	129
Size:	52.0 KB
ID:	536201

  #18  
Old 04-02-2020, 11:43 PM
68pongto's Avatar
68pongto 68pongto is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 651
Default

Here is a scan from May of 68 Car Life, you can clearly see the contrast between the black belts and silver pulley. Also, note the Ram Air seal, it has been deformed by the hood. Looks to have a membrane on it like the Oldsmobile seals and how they deform to their hoods.

Click image for larger version

Name:	CAR LIFE MAY68 47.jpg
Views:	210
Size:	106.2 KB
ID:	536203Click image for larger version

Name:	CAR & DRIVER FEB68 25.jpg
Views:	150
Size:	107.6 KB
ID:	536204

Click image for larger version

Name:	HOT ROD FEB68 35.jpg
Views:	152
Size:	85.8 KB
ID:	536205Click image for larger version

Name:	SUPER STOCK NOV67 18.jpg
Views:	130
Size:	134.5 KB
ID:	536206

  #19  
Old 04-03-2020, 06:08 AM
J GLASGO's Avatar
J GLASGO J GLASGO is online now
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,021
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 68pongto View Post
I have had several 9786819 XF pulleys and they were all silver cad. I have replated 3 of them in zink and left one all original for reference. The other two types (w-A/C and manual steer) pulleys I have seen have been painted black.

Attachment 536193Attachment 536194Attachment 536195
Exactly!!

__________________
WWW.GLASGOPERFORMANCE.COM. Updated... Sort of!
  #20  
Old 04-07-2020, 12:04 AM
Scott Thelander's Avatar
Scott Thelander Scott Thelander is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lacey WA
Posts: 1,558
Default and

2 more
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P4060347.jpg
Views:	162
Size:	60.4 KB
ID:	536559   Click image for larger version

Name:	P4060348.jpg
Views:	120
Size:	60.0 KB
ID:	536560  

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:20 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017