[Cruz22]

Is there any information on this short-deck race engine from the 70s? Shortly I am inheriting a car with a Pontiac 301, which from what little information is available on the 301, is that it is a descendant of the 303, carrying over such items as a two-counterweight crankshaft (Instead of five) and the light-weight connecting rods and just overall less weight than the comparable Chevy 305.

However due to the uniqueness of the 301 and it being the very last Pontiac-built V8, everyone has given up on it. I don't want to give up on it.

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by Cruz22

Is there any information on this short-deck race engine from the 70s? Shortly I am inheriting a car with a Pontiac 301, which from what little information is available on the 301, is that it is a descendant of the 303, carrying over such items as a two-counterweight crankshaft (Instead of five) and the light-weight connecting rods and just overall less weight than the comparable Chevy 305.

However due to the uniqueness of the 301 and it being the very last Pontiac-built V8, everyone has given up on it. I don't want to give up on it.

THE 301 is a junk engine not the RA5 based block of the 303....IMO.

GTO George

[tom s]

The 303 had 2.5 mains,4 bolt mains and all lifter bores supported.301 has 3 in main,the turbo blocks are stronger than the N/A.I made 478 HP with a 383 version with 15 heads.Doing another 383 right now with RA V heads.I don’t expect the same HP.Not for the weak of wallet.Tom

[pontbil]

You can do a lot with the 301 check out 301 garage and oddball pontiacs on facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/815586749225492

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Cruz22

Is there any information on this short-deck race engine from the 70s? Shortly I am inheriting a car with a Pontiac 301, which from what little information is available on the 301, is that it is a descendant of the 303, carrying over such items as a two-counterweight crankshaft (Instead of five) and the light-weight connecting rods and just overall less weight than the comparable Chevy 305.

However due to the uniqueness of the 301 and it being the very last Pontiac-built V8, everyone has given up on it. I don't want to give up on it.

I don't like to discourage anyone from a project they REALLY want to do. But there is a reason very few 301's are restored, raced or hot rodded. You have to understand the design limits the Pontiac engineers faced when developing this engine. It was their last chance to save the Pontiac V-8 from extinction, but they had to remove displacement, remove weight, and yet save as much tooling as possible. The result was a very weak block structure, very poor flowing cylinder heads, and the emission controls of the day made them run pretty bad. They have allot of specific parts that are not available in the aftermarket and building one NA to make 200 HP would cost much more than building a 450 HP 400 that is a direct bolt in. But if you want a challenge, the 301 would be a good one.

[Half-Inch Stud]

I studied the 301 heads to see if they could be "superior" in some way. No.
I did not ever look at the 301 shortblock, knowing the 326 is superior in many ways.
400 being far more superior than the 326. HP, and MPG when properly geared.

Yet, i'm stuck on 455s, again superior in TQ, HP and MPH when properly geared.

All has to do with the time-duration of the power-stroke vs inhales/mile.

[steve25]

If your insistence on hanging on to that 301 then plan on spending 70% more on building it then even a 326 or 350 Pontiac motor, and if it’s not the Turbo block and you built it to anywhere near a 300 hp level then get and take a long a few of those big plastic storage bins so you have it with you to pick up all the engine parts you will scatter along the road side when it blows up in short order!!

[tom s]

Mike,Joe Sherman and I did one,the turbo block is way stronger than most people realize.The rest of the engine is a throw away.The biggest thing to over come in putting a 400 crank in the block is the thrust bearing just like putting a cut down 428-455 crank in a 400 block.The other challenge was the head gasket.We found the Butler 400 gasket usable.I used a 63 326 crank and a spacer and Dave at SD did a set of #15 heads with a 2.05 intake.It was a challenging build because we were entering pretty much unknown territory.The second build was more straight forward because of the first build.Someone designed a hybrid head gasket that was a complete failure.Our bad as we did not pressure test it and filled the engine with water on the dyno.Cyc were sealed but nothing else.On the stand now going back together with the Butlers.My reason for doing this one is I have a lot of 303 SCCA stuff like a factory x ram that I want to see if it is driveable on the street BUT need a short deck and was not able to find another 303 SCCA block.Like the Bathtub intake I love challenges!There is a thread on both builds on this site.NO ONE thought the block would hold up to almost 500 HP.Will see if I can get lucky on another one.Tom

[tom s]

Steve,DONT make statements you cant back up!Been there done that!Old news!Tom

[tom s]

For those that have time to kill here is the first build!
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=710524

[steve25]

Tom, you can't deny the fact that if your building one on these motors with any kind of budget in mind and your stuck with using the non Turbo block, then when all is said and done your far better off trying to find a decent running 350 , stuffing in a chain, gears and a oil pump in and end the bleeding wallet syndrome for a good while!

At least then you have a solid basis to build on!

And no I don't care to talk here about what the Turbo block can do, as they are too few and far between and in the first place the OP does not have one, so stop your irrelevant spewing out here of what can and has been done with them!

Maybe the OP will get very lucky a turn one up and THEN apply your build recommendations.

[OCMDGTO]

[QUOTE=GTOGEORGE;6267822]THE 301 is a junk engine not the RA5 based block of the 303....IMO.

GTO George[/QUOTE
Definitely not a desirable performance engine but I wouldn't call it junk. My ex mother in law had one in a Firebird and it ran great and was surprisingly peppy.

[steve25]

I need to apologize to Tom for my comments in post 8 , as I did not know that many of later non Turbo 301 motors got built with the better Turbo block.

Thank for the info Tom.